Matt 1:25, not a virgin

[Fake Messiah]

The Bible seems explicit that Mary was not a virgin her whole life. So are Catholics just ignoring Matt 1:25, or did they find a loophole to believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin?

[arewethereyet]

It's the supposed virgin birth that is what is revered. The miracle of becoming pregnant without benefit of a sex act with a human man is what is important to the lore.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The Bible seems explicit that Mary was not a virgin her whole life. So are Catholics just ignoring Matt 1:25, or did they find a loophole to believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin?

There are other passages which explicitly state the Jesus had brothers. The Greek word used to describe them is ‘adelphoi’, which is generally taken to mean full biological brothers.

I suspect the Church clings to the ‘perpetual virginity’ nonsense it that it fits in better with the dogmas regarding original sin and both Jesus and Mary being not only sinless, but free from even the possibility of derived sin.

At least, it’s easier than the Church admitting that Mary was a normal biological female who didn’t mind the occasional game of hide-the-knockwurst.

Boru

[Rev. Rye]

Apparently, the interpretation St. Jerome went with is that, it would have to have two possible meanings: either the phrase “they did not have sex until she gave birth to a [firstborn] son” does not preclude Mary staying a virgin (note that even an only child is still technically a firstborn), or that this meant that Joseph would have had to have seen Mary, blood-soaked, exhausted, and covered with all the viscera and effluvia that comes from childbirth (and he gives a pretty graphic description) and decided to fuck her immediately.

No, this is not a good counter argument, but it’s what they have.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Apparently, the interpretation St. Jerome went with is that, it would have to have two possible meanings: either the phrase “they did not have sex until she gave birth to a [firstborn] son” does not preclude Mary staying a virgin (note that even an only child is still technically a firstborn), or that this meant that Joseph would have had to have seen Mary, blood-soaked, exhausted, and covered with all the viscera and effluvia that comes from childbirth (and he gives a pretty graphic description) and decided to fuck her immediately.

No, this is not a good counter argument, but it’s what they have.

Doesn’t say a lot for God’s choice of a stepfather, does it?

Boru

[LinuxGal]

The Bible seems explicit that Mary was not a virgin her whole life. So are Catholics just ignoring Matt 1:25, or did they find a loophole to believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin?

The author of Matthew (the actual Matthew was a tax collector, which means he went around breaking legs if you owed money) was an amateur theologian.  He had a Greek copy of Isaiah that rendered almah in 7:14 as "parthenos" which he took to mean virgin, but the whole prophesy was about events in the reign of King Ahaz way back when anyway.  Hijinks ensued.

[Fake Messiah]

The author of Matthew (the actual Matthew was a tax collector, which means he went around breaking legs if you owed money) was an amateur theologian.  He had a Greek copy of Isaiah that rendered almah in 7:14 as "parthenos" which he took to mean virgin, but the whole prophesy was about events in the reign of King Ahaz way back when anyway.  Hijinks ensued.

So it seems like it is a case of theologians thinking that they know more about Jesus than the gospel writers.

[Rev. Rye]

I think Linux meant that the author of the Gospel of Matthew (who was most likely not the Apostle Matthew) was an amateur theologian.

And one who relied on a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures that decided to translate two of the nine uses of “Almah” (which meant “young woman,” with no denotations of virginity) as “Parthenos” (which usually connotes virginity). And, surprisingly, the other seven times it’s used, it was translated as “neanis” (a Greek word that’s just a generic term for a young woman.)

[Fake Messiah]

An "amateur" theologian as opposed to today's "professional" theologians of today. But there is no professional or amateur when it comes to woo-woo.

For example, the reason why RCC proclaimed a dogma that Mary flew to heaven, instead of dying, is because a six-year-old boy, Gilles Bouhours, visited the pope in 1950 and told him that he had a vision of Mary who told him that, although it is not in the Bible.