Atheism and Purpose

[Ace Otana]

Jeeze this guy is an idiot!

[ssmutters]

It dawned on me about a year ago why atheism is so attractive. I was having a hard time with existential issues. You know, what am I supposed to do with my life? What meaning do I have? Is there any reason for my birth? How can I find my purpose for being? That sort of thing.

Then I realized a startling fact: if there is no God who created me, then I have no purpose. No inherent purpose, no mission in life. If everything is chaos and natural selection, then I'm just a determined entity. I don’t have to worry about “purpose.” There is no purpose. I am free from my existential dilemma. Free at last.

All I have to do is stop believing in God.

I was wondering if any of the atheists in here would like to comment. Have any of you had the same experience?

No, people are not atheists because they want to ignore "life's purpose". The concept of "life's purpose" itself is something that cannot be defined and a terminology coined by theists and has no meaning to atheists. In fact there would be no need for a word called atheism, were it not for the fact that we are indoctrinated by our parents and society. Atheism is a natural state of mind. I, as an atheist want to live with some purpose in my life that would give me happiness - for example, to care for animals, to learn and create music. So, I do have a mission in life but there's no inherent purpose I was born with.

I became an atheist just recently when I realized the fact that that I was believing in a God that does not exist. In fact, I am a bit unhappier after becoming an atheist since I have to take responsibility for all my actions now and I cannot shift my guilt or sins onto a higher God :-). But "wishing" for a God so that I would be happier is different from "knowing" that there is no such thing. I would also be happier if there was some magic in the world that would helo me make money without working. And how lovely it would be if there was a Santa Clause? And how I wish there were lovely little beings like fairies and angels who could touch me with their golden wings and take away my sorrows. But that doesn't make me believe in them.

- ss

[chasm]

Jeeze this guy is an idiot!

I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING!!!!

[Cego_Colher]

I have two things to saw:

1-- will of the species
and
2--Circular logic is circular

[Darwinian]

It's not that he's an idiot, it's just that he's been brought up in an environment where critical thinking is something that he has never been exposed to and is probably discouraged from an early age.

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

I was going to say 'brainwashed' in the sense that he's been indoctrinated in such a way as to not apply a reasonable amount of skeptisism and logic to his own beliefs. I mean, we all know the shpeal about questioning god. You simply don't. Just because. Why? Because you'll go to hell, that's why.

It's all a variation on the same concept. Christian or not.

You ask how do I know I'm not believing in the wrong god? How could I be? It's my God.

A bold assertion. I hope you're wiling away your life based on something you can be sure of with no real reason, other than a desire to believe, for a damn good reason.
I wouldn't want to spend my life based on what my delusions and imaginary friends tell me to do, especially if all the popular ones say something different than mine.

Everyone has their own god, even atheists have their own god, they simply don't differentiate between the thing they see in the mirror and God. Other people externalize god, like me. Some people have similar notions of god and build churches in response to that, but even in those churches, everyone forms their own image of god.

I don't think you understand what 'atheist' is if you believe that we have our own god.

I suppose what I'm arguing is that there's something greater than gods.

You can argue that all you want, but like all theists' interpretations of gospel and god, it's all still speculation based on fantasy and imagination.

Is my God make-believe? No, He's real. The same thing that created me created Him by creating me. It's that thing that baffles me. It's what I'm trying to illustrate philosophically and mathematically these days. I don't know if I'll succeed.

I'm sure you believe he is, but neither you nor I have any actual reason to believe he's anything more than your over-active imagination trying to find a reason for things to happen the way they do.

Oh let's be honest here for a minute. A lot of people are atheists because they don't like the moral restrictions placed on them by the Church, especially in regards to abortion and homosexuality. But having said that, a lot of people are atheists because the moral hypocrisy of the church is simply too disgusting for them to endure, especially if they've been a victim of it.

Hypocracy and other ridiculous things the churches do are part and parcel of the amusement I get at their expense, but for the same reason I'm not an atheist because I reject god I'm also not an atheist because I reject the church, its teachings, or its morality.
To think otherwise is folly.

[Edward the Theist]

To the people who think I'm an idiot and incapable of critical thinking. I hope you don't expect me to respond to your questions from here on out. I find your insults hypocritical to say the least, as you have begged me to be hyper-respectful of you and your opinions and your beliefs.

As for these reputation points. If they are meant to be a way you can all get together and ban me from your group after I collect enough of them, by all means just do it now. I think it's pathetic, but I'm actually a little proud of being in the red.

Actually, I fully expect to be banned. I don't know why you'd want me in here anyway. It used to be all about debate, there were MSN groups like atheists vs. God, etc., and it was all about the argument. As the years have gone by, it seems more and more that popular atheism, or neo-atheism has become like a religion and a church all on its own. It even has mega-pastors like Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher and the like. Even this group takes in donations now. It used to be about the debate, but the dogmatic nature of neo-atheism, the intollerance, the anger, the attacks, the cause, and even the basically left-wing morality has become a kind of fundamentalism.

The Christian Church is losing it's grip on society. I mean, really, for the most part it has no authority over anyone anymore. And it deserves to go extinct. But in its wake it produces all kinds of alternate religions to fill the vacuum, and one of those is the religion that forms in opposition to the Church--atheism.

Philosophies tend to turn into religions after awhile. Atheism was a philosophy, now it's much more like a religion. The Christians had a fish, the atheists have geek-chic glasses. The Christians had baptism, atheists have tatoos. Christians had Billy Graham; atheists have Richard Dawkins.

I can't get into a Christian forum anymore with my ideas. They ban me instantly--no question. Over the years, the atheists have become less and less tolerant as well.

So, I fully expect to be banned. I actually didn't think I'd last this long. I initially intended just to visit blogs as you typically can't be banned from them unless they moderate comments which kills the blog.

So, fire your reputation points. Break your own rules with your insults--no different than Christians do. Try to be different by being the same, and I'm just going to be me. In fact, I'm not going to go out of my way to be polite anymore. I'm just going to be me.

--Edward

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

To the people who think I'm an idiot and incapable of critical thinking. I hope you don't expect me to respond to your questions from here on out. I find your insults hypocritical to say the least, as you have begged me to be hyper-respectful of you and your opinions and your beliefs.

No, but we do expect you to engage in open discourse, including defending your positions on matters of faith and your opinions such as the ones you've stated on this thread.
Feigning persecution instead of challenging us or considering your own position isn't going to do you any good.

Actually, I fully expect to be banned. I don't know why you'd want me in here anyway. It used to be all about debate, there were MSN groups like atheists vs. God, etc., and it was all about the argument. As the years have gone by, it seems more and more that popular atheism, or neo-atheism has become like a religion and a church all on its own. It even has mega-pastors like Richard Dawkins, Bill Maher and the like. Even this group takes in donations now. It used to be about the debate, but the dogmatic nature of neo-atheism, the intollerance, the anger, the attacks, the cause, and even the basically left-wing morality has become a kind of fundamentalism.

It only seems dogmatic because facts tend to persist better than even the most stringent of fantasy. Atheism is not any kind of fundementalism, if anything, it is its opposite.

The Christian Church is losing it's grip on society. I mean, really, for the most part it has no authority over anyone anymore. And it deserves to go extinct. But in its wake it produces all kinds of alternate religions to fill the vacuum, and one of those is the religion that forms in opposition to the Church--atheism.

Atheism is neither a church nor a philosophy in the sense of being a kind of religion.

I can't get into a Christian forum anymore with my ideas. They ban me instantly--no question. Over the years, the atheists have become less and less tolerant as well.

I hear this all the time from people trying to push intelligent design into science, spouting persecution for their supposedly scientiic ideas when the rejection stems from intelligent design not actually being scientific according to the experts the religious are trying to push it on to. The problem with your ideas isn't the ideas themselves, but rather the methodology in which you bring them with no option for honest discourse. Your statements in this thread have already proven that you have already chosen not to listen to any criticism of your ideas.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I find your insults hypocritical to say the least, as you have begged me to be hyper-respectful of you and your opinions and your beliefs.

I'm unaware of anyone demanding respect from you or anyone else. That's not the way this forum works.Respect is earned,on both sides.

I don't know you,so have no idea if you're an idiot and actually incapable of critical thought. However, I think that's a reasonable conclusion based on what you've posted.

As for these reputation points. If they are meant to be a way you can all get together and ban me from your group after I collect enough of them, by all means just do it now. I think it's pathetic, but I'm actually a little proud of being in the red.

Reputation points reflect the way a person is seen by some of the members.More than the odd one or two suggest you have REALLY pissed off some members. However,negative points are not cause for banning,nor do we gang up on people to ban them.You will be banned by moderators if you break forum rules,which include being a disruptive influence.


This place is called 'Atheist Forums' which should be a hint to the various apologists who insists on coming here.Ironically,such people usually demand [and receive] a level of respect and tolerance they do not afford atheists on their own sites.


My position: Our forum, our rules, our subculture and funny little ways.We owe you nothing. It is you who need to fit in with us,not us with you.If that's not OK with you,please feel free to leave at any time.

[SleepingDemon]

That's a very eloquent post. Thank you for writing it on my behalf. It sounds like the Book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible. But if you're right, happiness is impossible because life and consciousness and the formation of a person who could write what you just did is a waste. We become aware, we go extinct. Actually, only a god could be that cruel to us.

But I do believe we cease to exist when we die. The difference, I would argue, is that we cease to exist the same way we ceased to exist as a small child.

For instance, I had a memory yesterday of something I said to my mother when I was five. I remembered it clearly for some reason, and it struck me that the person who said that to my mother was not the same person remembering it. The boy had ceased to exist a long time ago.

As for purpose, I would concede that it may not be possible to willfully follow a purpose in life. We have a purpose, each and everyone of us, but it comes to us automatically and deterministically. Some people are born for the prison yard, some people cure polio.

Hmm it won't let me remove my Kudos, thought I was clicking the reply button.

Anyway, I don't quite understand why your responses sound so depressing. I don't understand why one would be depressed about this sort of thing anyway, but that's another discussion.

Some people aren't born for the prison yard, that is absolutely untrue. While we are all partially a product of our respective environments, at some point it is still a choice. Now granted someone who grows up in poverty has a harder time becoming a fully functional and successful citizen as opposed to someone who grows up in a wealthy family. However it isn't impossible for the former to be as successful as the latter or even surpass them, it is all about choices. And the choices we make are what matters most.

Now, most theists that I know tell me that it is incomprehensible how one can be happy believing that there is nothing beyond this life. My answer is typically something to the affect of life itself being the source of happiness, but that response doesn't tend to do well with people who are by nature depressed anyway. I suppose the thought of some eternal reward in an blissful utopia after they die provides some hope that whatever they endure here will be compensated in the life to come. To me it's insulting to believe such a notion. To diminish all of the world's suffering into some celestial barter system where pain in this life equals rewards in the next. Human suffering should not exist at all, period, and any attempt to reconcile suffering with a promise of eternal bliss should be shot down with the same indignified disregard as it was delivered.

Do you think atheism condemns one to a miserable, pointless existence? Simply waking up to sunshine, being greeted by smiling loved ones and friends even on occasion makes me happy. The endless possibilities within this very young species gives me nothing but hope and joy. I'm not simply content to be alive, but i'm excited to be alive. And on some level I think that is really the point of it all. There is no compensation. You won't find a pot of gold at the end of your rainbow, there will be no eternal bliss with dead relatives and the saints. Your reward is what you make of this time you have here. Whether you contribute to your species is up to you, but it is upon you to do something with your life. It is your responsibility to find your piece of happiness here. If you aren't happy within yourself, you won't be happy with anyone, or doing anything else.

You have it all wrong man, you have atheism all wrong. Atheism is a logical conclusion one finds when one has the audacity to question old paradigms and superstitions. If you believe in god, or gods, and you ask questions you will end up in the very same place the rest of us do, otherwise, you are asking questions having already decided on the answer, which really is a pointless venture. There is no higher calling to atheism, it isn't a church, or a religion, or even a philosophy. Atheism is a conclusion. Your disbelief in dragons or fairies gives you no distress, you don't find yourself longing for death after deciding once and for all that no monsters are under your bed. Life does go on once you realize that Santa Clause was actually your relatives all along. And you move on with your life. Life is about going forward, our species moves forward, time moves forward, the years fly by and our short time here expires. But you're here today, and tomorrow is a new day. So stop being so damned depressing, have a drink, read a book, look up at the stars, and life your life.