Muslim Imam calls for Homosexual death 3 weeks before pulse nigh club shooting

[Drich]

Yes we can as Christians do that because Christianity is splintered into over 30K different sects... However Islam is subdivided into 4. The supper aggressive death to infidels are know as the Sunni. The Sunni represent 90% of all Islam. So when the Imam in this video says death to Gays, and the shooter shoots and wounds/kills almost 100 people for being gay, The shooter is simply following his only prescribed path to redemption for his own alleged sin of being gay or having those feeling himself..

That's the thing when a religion is united like Islam there are no fringes there is no "well that's not islam" as all fall under the same umbrella. Jihadist and 'moderates' are both recognized as legitimate members of Sunni Islam. Matter of fact Jihadists are look at as being superior spiritually than to a moderate.

You are wrongly combining your understanding of how Christianity works to a religion that does not follow the same set of rules. As it's infrastructure and control are completely different than what you grew up with.

I don't give a fuck who has more divisions, religion sucks as a way of viewing others as fellow humans because of such divisions, your religion and theirs. If you want to claim, or they want to claim that a god exists, seems pretty nasty of such a being to allow such violent divisions. But no, sorry the violent and the bigoted are still getting their morality from the same book you are if they call themselves "Christian". You not liking their interpretation does not make it a different source. 

At least you don't throw gays off rooftops? You go look at those holy people in those videos, and you tell me what those Christians would do to gays, or even atheists if we had no secular law protecting us from those nutfucks? 

The west became more civil in spite of religion, not because of it.

You don't give a "fuck" because you are happy in ignorance. It is easier for you to hold your current comfortable position if you don't know how the religions work...

thing is.. the rest of the world is moving on and leaving people like you because we can no longer afford to remain ignorant. Tell you what I send you a 25 bucks on election day if you promise to stay away from the voting booth and just go see a movie..

To the body of you point... If you took the time to both to understand what I am point out you'd see a larger problem than what a few super religious nuts want to do with sinners...

Again In Christianity when a person gets 'radicalized' they schism or split off the main body.. most often they die out.. if however their views are popular a new religion/version of christianity is born. However even if they have a government recognized religious christian church, their voice is relatively small and ineffective.

Islam is different. they (90%) are one body. All of thier 'schisms' (with in the Sunni sect) have been contained and adopted. meaning there are NO NUT BAGS. Yes there are radical ideas (jihad/terrorists) But again here is the thing THEY ARE ALL ACCEPTED as being one of 3 different way you can live your Muslim life. Meaning everything on that video was not some nut bag pastor. He was recognized leader of that church. Preaching a universally accepted message that called for the murder of gay people.

Do you not see the difference between a westbrough baptist preacher of maybe 30 members and a Imam who has koranic authority over BILLIONS of Followers?

What is the liklyhood out of those 30 nut bag Christians that 20% of the would drop everything in their life and wage a holy war based on what the pastor said???

Now out of 2 billion people ask the same question...

Do you see the difference? Who is more likly to inspire an attack? nut bag preacher or the man how has the ear of potentially billions of people through social media?

Which is the crux of my point... How many time bombs do we have living among us? who is the next guy to listen to just the right hate message, and decide to blow up the superbowl or shoot up a super crowded place?

[Drich]

This is the symptom of the 'regressive liberal' concept of Islamophobia - the ingenious conflation of Racism and Religious Criticism. If anyone tries to criticize Islam they are automatically branded a racist xenophobic bigot, and shouted down without anyone having to actually confront their legitimate critique of this overtly homophobic religion. Islamophobia is a racist term! It affirms the notion that Islam is basically about Arabian and Pakistani people - they make it about race. Islam is NOT a race, it's a religion followed by people of all 'racial' types.

Donald Trump is winning because of this - the "You're just a racist!" Islamophobia knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of Islam means that anyone who is genuinely concerned about it feels like nobody cares, and like they are being condescended to, and the only people who talk about their concerns and take them seriously are far-right extremists and genuine bigots like Donald Trump.

Islam is not a race, but that doesn't mean some people don't hate Muslims out of racism.

YES IT DOES!!!!

One can be Bigoted, but not racist against Muslims.

[GrandizerII]

Islam is not a race, but that doesn't mean some people don't hate Muslims out of racism.

YES IT DOES!!!!

One can be Bigoted, but not racist against Muslims.

I said some, and it's a personal observation that some people do confuse Muslims and Arabs together, thinking they're exactly the same group.

[Chad32]

Terrorism is a big threat. And most terrorist attacks are done by christian groups. That doesn't include christians trying their hardest to turn this country into christian sharia. I'm more worried about people like Pastor Anderson, because it's more likely that more Americans will listen to him. Because he's preaching from the local holy book, instead of the middle eastern one.

Someone like you should probably not be posting a thread like this anyway. You have more in common with that kind of person than we do. Hell you're against the idea of empathy. If anything, one might accuse you of trolling, because we know you don't care about the plight of homosexuals.

So let me get this straight you see Christianity as a greater threat than terrorist attacks/planes into buildings, shooting up nigh clubs, shooting up a CHRISTMAS PARTY etc... Because Christianity offers an opposing view to you politically but is willing to obey and yeild to all the laws of the land, yet simply stands in disagreement with you?!?!?!

No. I'm saying that christian extremists do the same thing, and if they obey the law it's largely because they created those laws. Yes they've been working on christian sharia for about as long as the country has been in place. You really think your side is so much different than them. The only reason christians on average might be more sane, is because secular laws have dragged them into sanity. You've still got people bombing abortion clinics, or enacting regulation just to shut clinics down. Like I said. You don't give a crap about homosexuals, so why are you even remarking on a guy wanting to shoot up some people?

[Drich]

"We as Christians" is a problematic phrase - when you call yourself a 'Christian' you are not sufficiently defining your position. 'Christian' includes EVERYONE who defines themselves as such, including the Westborough Baptist Church - as vile as they are, their Biblical justification is sound and they have just as much right to call themselves Christian as you do. That's the elephant in the room with their protests - if you want to be considered separate from all the parts of Christianity you dislike then it's on you to use a less broad brush. 

you can just ask next time... When you don't fully understand my position, you know rather than assume I have not covered the 'elephant in the room.'
When I said Christian's I meant all who claim the title, yes even the westboroughs and the Mormons of this world. As Christianity is indeed subdivided into 30K different recognized expressions as recognized by the state. Which again include your elephants. The broader point I was making by including these expressions of the faith was to say that when ever we as christians differ, we split from one another. meaning new church new rules. that means I can call myself christian and not recognize another who does the opposite but wants to retain the title. Sunni Muslims do not do this. (which is why you will be hard pressed to ever heard a sunni condemn another for an act of jihad.) That means there are no fringes of the religion as all are accepted under a single umbrella.

The truth is that the God of the Bible explicitly states that homosexual acts are an abomination and punishable by death,

If you are an OT Jew yes, but even the jews now are not considered to be "OT Jews."

and Jesus explicitly states that all of the Old Testament law still stands,

No actually he does not.
He said he did not come to change the law, He did not say it "still stands."

so for you to call yourself a Christian but presumably disagree with the word of the Christian God undermines your position and puts the homophobes on stronger ground.

You just made my point for me didn't you?
Even if you were confused about what Christ said you could point to what I believe and call me a left wing christian and disavow me. and I could do the opposite to you.. But again In Islam this is not so. The one who shoots up a night club is actual more well respected than a tax paying law abiding citizen. The shooter is considered to be more devout, and therefore commands more reward from their god.

The law abider can not disagree and call him a right wing nut bag.. He is forced to accept the shooter as doing what he has been called to do under the religion.

[Minimalist]

Why are baptist ministers and fringe christians being quoted for commending this act when the shooter's own religious belief system supports what he did, and is being literally called to be done by one of his religious leaders just 3 weeks before this happened?

Because they're here and the muslim guy isn't?  That's okay, dripshit.  If you don't mind the comparison between your bullshit primitive religion and the Imam's I don't mind comparing you.

[Veritas_Vincit]

[quote='Veritas_Vincit' pid='1316942' dateline='1467141189']

The truth is that the God of the Bible explicitly states that homosexual acts are an abomination and punishable by death,

If you are an OT Jew yes, but even the jews now are not considered to be "OT Jews."

and Jesus explicitly states that all of the Old Testament law still stands,

No actually he does not.
He said he did not come to change the law, He did not say it "still stands."

I'm afraid you are mistaken, Jesus did expressly say all the Old Testament law still applies:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

This means that when God says to Abraham that:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

along with all the other ridiculous rules in that chapter, Jesus says you still have to follow them. Read the whole chapter here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=KJV

And the problem this gives you is that if you do want to disavow the barbarism of the Old Testament, you undermine the Bible's only claim to authority, being that it is the word of God, and you undermine the notion that Christianity and the Bible are the source of Morality. So I would ask you: Do you believe that the Bible is the word of God? Is the Bible an accurate portrayal of God's character? 

I would agree that there needs to be a lot more public condemnation for Islamic terrorist activities by Muslims. Islam would be easier to deal with if there was a centralized authority. I don't think that all 1.6 Billion Muslims are likely to be in favour of the murder of homosexuals, but I would be surprised if there were not many millions who are.

[Brian37]

If you are an OT Jew yes, but even the jews now are not considered to be "OT Jews."

No actually he does not.
He said he did not come to change the law, He did not say it "still stands."

I'm afraid you are mistaken, Jesus did expressly say all the Old Testament law still applies:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

This means that when God says to Abraham that:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

along with all the other ridiculous rules in that chapter, Jesus says you still have to follow them. Read the whole chapter here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=KJV

And the problem this gives you is that if you do want to disavow the barbarism of the Old Testament, you undermine the Bible's only claim to authority, being that it is the word of God, and you undermine the notion that Christianity and the Bible are the source of Morality. So I would ask you: Do you believe that the Bible is the word of God? Is the Bible an accurate portrayal of God's character? 

I would agree that there needs to be a lot more public condemnation for Islamic terrorist activities by Muslims. Islam would be easier to deal with if there was a centralized authority. I don't think that all 1.6 Billion Muslims are likely to be in favour of the murder of homosexuals, but I would be surprised if there were not many millions who are.

This is the problem with all religions, not even Buddhism or Hindus entire history has been completely violence free or sexism free. 

I really get down on theists that others making bad claims mean we should do the same type of WW2 Germany scapegoating of entire labels. Nobody is in favor of Islamic based theocratic law. But we are also not in favor of our Christian right in the west trying to turn back the clock on human rights.

It is only western secular law that keeps the divisions to a more civil degree, not the religions themselves. There is not one religion worldwide as an umbrella label that does not have competing sub sects. The underpinnings of Christianity's former barbaric past are still based on the words in the bible.

[Veritas_Vincit]

Nobody is in favor of Islamic based theocratic law.

Are you joking?

A fundamental goal of Islam as a political-economic-religious system is to create the Caliphate, which is precisely that. Have you ever looked at what ISIS or any of the other Islamic extremist/fundamentalist groups want? One of their key charges against the West is that we stepped in to stop the genocide in East Timor, which in their mind constituted taking away a 'Muslim land' for which they can never forgive us - that was a reason they gave for 9/11 - the US stopping a genocide. If you look at the polls there is an alarmingly high number of Muslims who would be very much in favor of imposing Shariah law and imposing a Caliphate in every country in the world.

[Mystic]

As far I am aware Quran forbid killing for sex (and has shown it was forbidden in the past with Jews and Christian holy books as well), but instead has laid down, lashing for unlawful sex (sex outside marriage). The only exception is that I would classify "rape" as mischief/havoc in the earth, as it disturbs the peace and security of the people....so that is the only "sex" act that I see Quran justifying death penalty for.

At any rate, even if Quran was silent about this issue, and ahadith are to be followed regarding this issue in killing homosexuals who are caught doing the act, those who advocate killing don't condone taking the law in your own hands and going to a foreign country, and punishing people for committing that.  

For example, I believe fornicators should be lashed in an Islamic country. Does that mean I advocate people lashing at people in a foreign country and attacking them if four witnesses see them commit fornication.

Of course not.