Muslim Imam calls for Homosexual death 3 weeks before pulse nigh club shooting

[Mister Agenda]

Citation: Google 'countries with the death penalty for homosexuality'. There are 49 majority Muslim countries. Ten countries have the death penalty for homosexuality (Yemen, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan (no known death sentences since 2001), Somalia (in some southern regions), Sudan (in the North, with a three-strike rule), and the UAE (so not enforced that they're not sure if they have the death penalty for homosexuality or not). Iran is majority Shia and Nigeria is majority Christian, so that's eight of 48 Sunni-majority countries. 40 out of 48 is 'most'.

I like how you referred to your reading as your source of authority, as if Muslims have to conform to your links and interpretations of their scriptures. Given that you're claiming that Sunni Islam is so centrally controlled, you seem to have a paradox on your hands.

Funny I did your google search and found the washington post story you referenced, but I also found several others as well.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patr...amic-death
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-...s-illegal/
In the Cnsnews article lists 13 Countries where death is indeed the state's responsiblity, however the following article mentions a list of other countries where people who kill homosexuals are not prosecuted for murder. Meaning in these muslims countries it is not a matter of the state to hold a trial, and convict a suspected homosexual. they seem to be content with Islam sponsored lynch mobs.


as far as using my sources as a point of authority.. You don't seem to understand that the source material is repersentive of what 90% HAVE TO think about any given subject. You are confusing how Christianity works verses how Sunni Islam works. There is no freedom of interpretation here. That is why the vast majority of muslims will not outright condemn terrorism, unless they feel intimidated or threatened by you. (as it is then their right to lie to you about what they believe) Otherwise they fear reprisal by the community at large or in certain regions they fear death. That is the reason sunni islam repersents 90% of all muslims. As the kill/beat those who do not comply. think dark ages Christianity and you might find yourself 1/2 there concerning devotion and fanatical no questions allowed belief.

That count of 13 includes the parts of Syria and Iraq controlled by ISIS, which is not a country. It includes five countries where the death penalty is codified but not known to be enforced. Nigeria is majority Christian, not majority Muslim. And if you count all 13, most Sunni majority countries still don't have the death penalty for homosexuality.

If you're right about what Sunnis HAVE to think, then you still have a paradox of why most Sunni countries don't have the death penalty for homosexuality. And Turkey is considering allowing gay marriage.

[Mister Agenda]

Pakistan shouldn't be on that list either. There are 27 things you can be executed for in Pakistan, having homosexual sex isn't one of them.

http://hrcp-web.org/hrcpweb/death-penalty-offences/

[Athene]

What...are you crazy? How is this video even relevant? 
The Orlando attack had NOTHING to do with homosexuality...so sayeth you. 

quotation please.

Well, there's no way I'm going to wade through piles of posts stretching over 3 or more thread. So, fine...I'll rephrase: 

You believe the massacre was a punishment towards the West for attacking the perpetrator's homeland, and that the choice of venue was simply a means for the perpetrator to atone for his homosexual urges/sin; nothing more. The fact that the LGBT community would use this act of terror to push their douchey, liberal agenda is shameful.

Better now?

I was just wondering why you would suddenly be concerned with the matter, if not pushing an agenda of your own.

Irony man, irony. 
Get it?

So not news...
A main stream mosque invites a main stream imam to speak and he speaks a mainstream Islamic message that says Kill Gay people so they can have a chance at attonement... Then 3 weeks later someone struggling with his homosexuality does this very thing!

Of course it would be news if there were an indication that the attacker actually heard this Imam's particular message. Did he? 
If that's the case, I'd agree that this video should've seen more airtime, as it would be reasonable to suggest it was a possible and/or likely motivation for the shooter's actions. Otherwise it's just one of many hate-filled diatribes aimed at the wicked, wicked West. 

Disturbing, yes....but by no means shocking or unusual, IMO. 

Maybe you should take some time to define what is and is not news worthy to your liberal mind..

Perhaps you should tone down the hysteria and quasi- conspspiracy theorism, and resist suggesting that people are stupid or deficient because they don't immediately accept your suppositions as facts and subsequently conclude that some sort of hidden/shadow agenda is at play.

Better yet would it be news if he were following the instructions of a west borough baptist minister instead? Why is one news and the other not? Why was the mere fact that they were here protesting the funerals with their god hates fag signs and the guy who inspired the shootings gets a pass?

Or have you just been indoctrinated to not think that way?

Nope. My anti-indoctrination software's been recently updated.

Not sure why you would actually suggest that, without actually being clear on my thoughts regarding the matter. The leaps and bounds you're willing to take when making assumptions about people is astonishing, Drich. I've never seen anything quite like it.

Thena wrote:

---

Yes, I believe news outlets can and do spin stories on occasion, with the goal of shaping/influencing public sentiment on particular matters; though I'm not sure I'd believe that to be the case in this instance. If it were, I think the goal or reason would be a bit more complex than simply changing how the public views Islam, as a exercise in liberal douchery. 

Public safety actually comes to mind.

---

who's safty? the murder who instigated this attack? Because without some public accountability his guy is free to continue to perfect his sermon to reach out to the next guy and the next.

heh heh...Last I heard it wasn't douchebag liberals who wanted to block any attempts at limiting hate-speech as being an attacks on religious expression. 

Can't have it both ways, sir.

Or maybe you are referring to the billions who embrace what was said on the video???

What if they were Christians who said this and billions of Christian who embraced a doctrine of killing gays would you be concerned with their safty?

No, Drich. I'm referring to the safety of ordinary American citizens, including those who just happen be, or are even perceived as being Muslim.

Why the hypocrisy?

There's no hypocrisy. I'm actually of the opinion that radical Islam currently poses a greater security threat to the U.S. and U.S. interests than radical Christianity; I'm simply capable of recognizing the clear distinction between that, and the assertion that all or "most Muslims" are a security threat.

An important distinction...particularly when it comes to determining just what in the Hell's to be done about it, don't you think?

[Drich]

I'd say that it -is- violent, when their opposition leads to a back-alley abortion.  Might as well just start punching unwed mothers in the stomach when you see them.

So again, you view a group of people willing to submit themselves completely to the law of the land and their only influencing of others comes through democratic appointed laws, on par with a group that has a holy book mandate to strike out at 'unbelievers' by any means necessary. (planes into buildings, shooting up night clubs, blowing up airport terminals, all out war etc..)

Do you really see yourself as a martyr having to deal with voting down christian based legislation? are you truly so indoctrinated that you can see no difference between how Shira law works and how Christian work with in the community?

[Drich]

And just because leaders of Christianity "only" oppose LGBT marriage instead of actively advocating for death as a punishment doesn't make them "progressive" either. It's not even just about gay people, we still have contemporary Popes and other leaders opposing abortion and womens' agency of their reproduction. Even if it's not "violent", that's a problem.

There is no such a thing as leaders of christianity. There are only leaders of different branches of christianity. Some only opposing gay marriage, some outright celebrating the slaughter, some actively calling for the extermination of gays.

Which is my whole point moron!!!
Because there aren't leaders then when someone from the far right stands up and declares war on homosexual he is quickly dismissed as a nut bag...

This is in stark contrast to how sunni islam works. There are leaders and Educated Imam are placed over mosques and even over entire regions containing many mosques, so when they speak People have to listen. Like the guy in the OP who spoke at one of a chain of mosques that the shooter did infact go to.

Pretty much a spitting image of the muslim world, but that seems to escape Drippy's notice while riding the high horse. He of all persons, being the poster boy of disgusting bible interpretations.

Again moron Sunni Islam is 90% of the muslim world and they are united. You like most other lazy inept people simply have taken their familiarity with Christianity and have laid that template over Islam and assume that it works the same way. i have left dozens of post with citations/links that state the exact opposite. Yet you out of sheer ignorance need to believe the oppsite..

Look sport you wanting something to be true and the truth of the matter are two completely different things. I have left citations to prove my position on the subject, where are yours?

Or are you just a man of 'faith' when it comes to religion?

[Drich]

Although King James had a committee to write his version of the Bible the guy who wrote the anti-homosexual screed in Leviticus probably included it as an attack against King James himself, who was a queer as they came.  

http://rictornorton.co.uk/jamesi.htm

We still have the 3rd century text from which the KJV was translated.

[Drich]

I am sorry you think I thought both those sects split from Sunni Islam when it was just the Ahmadiyya that did.

And swing and another miss!!
That strike two sport
The Ahmadiyya were spawned from the theological ideologies of Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi. Mr. Batalvi belonged to the Ahle Hadith sect
Hadrhat just popularized what he agreed Maulvi had to say.

https://www.alislam.org/library/history/...yya/3.html

Are you the authority on whether a sect is Muslim or not?

Nuupe, just some shmo with google and a desire to know the truth despite how a specific arguement works out.. It seems you pick a position and have to defend it at all costs. I simply identify truth and follow where ever it leads.

You won't find 'believe Mohammed is the final prophet' in the Five Pillars of Islam.

Seeings how you first point failed, I do not see what difference the second point makes...

You really think a religious orthodoxy can control 1.5 billion adherents?

Never heard of the Dark ages huh? Well, you see.. the dark ages is where the catholic church or 'orthodoxy controlled just about the whole world' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_demography
At it's peek Just what control the church had in Europe= out to a billion people. What is important here is the percentage of control, and to that end Islam is going through it's dark age now.

That none of the organizations I mentioned are composed mostly of Sunnis? That 'kill the apostate' crap may fly in Saudi Arabia or Yemen; but not in Muslim majority countries like Albania, Bosnia, Turkey (or ex-Soviet 'Turkic' countries like Kazakhstan), or Morocco. And many of those fighting ISIS are Sunnis.

You are right... many of the non sunni control countries do not have the 'kill the apostate' laws on the books, but the hard core sunni countries do.. wonder why that is..

You better get in touch with Sunni High Command and tell them to get their act together. You know those Kurds so famous for fighting ISIS? Mostly Sunnis. Turkish forces? Mostly Sunnis. It's almost like no one is really in charge of Sunni Muslims.

How is this any different than when "christian Nazis" mowed down the rest of europe (which were also Christian?)
Or how the South turned on the North in our civil war or how the colonists turned on Britain in the revolutionary war.
The reason the Kurds fight is because they are a people with out a country (37 millionish.) ISIS like the Nazi's with the jews are fighting against the kurds, to exterminate a problem as they see it. (for religious reasons/kill the apostates) It's because Part of that problem is how the kurds do not hold tightly to their religion first. They are kurds first where as the Islamic state Islam comes first. this makes their practice of sunni islam hertical according to isis. The Islamic state would also see many Sunni muslims living in the west as also being apostate and deserving of death. (especially those who are critical of their terrorist actions.) Which again is why most will not speak out against it unless they feel threatened.

[Drich]

Well, there's no way I'm going to wade through piles of posts stretching over 3 or more thread. So, fine...I'll rephrase: 

You believe the massacre was a punishment towards the West for attacking the perpetrator's homeland, and that the choice of venue was simply a means for the perpetrator to atone for his homosexual urges/sin; nothing more. The fact that the LGBT community would use this act of terror to push their douchey, liberal agenda is shameful.

Better now?

You still don't get it...
At Pulse it was also Latin night.. Let's say the latino community leaders decided to make this about an attack or racial discrimination against latino people. and let's say they latino community leaders including Marco rubio (who is this district's senator) Pushes for legislation protecting all latinos from a threat directed at all of us, not just Gays or latinos... In essence this politician uses the deaths of 49 people to push a political agenda furthering what the latino community wants for itself... In contrast to what actually happened:

A domestic naturally born muslims man struggled with his sexuality. He knows it a sin, but can help what he feels... He has no way to atone for his sin, till one day a high ranking offical in his religion tells him he must kill and be killed and then all will be forgiven. He struggles with this for weeks or day, and then puts a plan together to atone for his sin. The plan is to strike out against the culture which has poisoned him, and to help these gay people to also be forgiven for their sin...

But again all of this was buried so Homosexuality as a political statement could gain legitimacy and power at the cost of 49 people's deaths.

And the rest of America remain ignorant of how much of a threat Islam Can indeed be.

I was just wondering why you would suddenly be concerned with the matter, if not pushing an agenda of your own.

My agenda is to bring awareness on how volatile a member of the Muslim community can be if they do not like society and have a outstanding need for 'redemption.' This whole thing could just as easily been about women and how they dress at night clubs..

Irony man, irony. 
Get it?

No, because my 'agenda' is to bring out the truth... so then how is that an agenda unless you support the propaganda we are fed? That political messages are more important than giving our citizens the truth to work with..

So not news...
A main stream mosque invites a main stream imam to speak and he speaks a mainstream Islamic message that says Kill Gay people so they can have a chance at attonement... Then 3 weeks later someone struggling with his homosexuality does this very thing!

Of course it would be news if there were an indication that the attacker actually heard this Imam's particular message. Did he? 

Yes he faithfully attended the mosque chain that this guy spoke at.

If that's the case, I'd agree that this video should've seen more airtime, as it would be reasonable to suggest it was a possible and/or likely motivation for the shooter's actions. Otherwise it's just one of many hate-filled diatribes aimed at the wicked, wicked West. 

There is no sign in sheet, that put him in attendance but this was his mosque, one he attended 'religiously.'

one of the things the FBI is holding are some of the things this guys said was his primary motivation. We in orlando heard from club goers what was said, and according to them this was all religious in nature, from support of IsIS and the taliban to picking his target. but again that info is being with held as "to not allow the shooters wishes of this being a religious political statement." Then they cite a FL law that allows them to with hold such info in an on going investigation. Which the local papers are suing the FBI to have released.

Perhaps you should tone down the hysteria and quasi- conspspiracy theorism, and resist suggesting that people are stupid or deficient because they don't immediately accept your suppositions as facts and subsequently conclude that some sort of hidden/shadow agenda is at play.

So.. dumb it down and make it more vanilla so it can be more easily digested...

Here's a thought.. Maybe the world does not work in a vanilla way.. Maybe inorder for a person to shoot up a night club and do so not in a 'crazy way' but a way consistent with his basic religious beliefs, it means not everything you are told or understand about this religion is true.. Maybe just maybe you've been lied to and what I am saying is not "hysterical and quasi- conspspiracy theorism" but what is actually a true reflection of what is actually happening in the west...

What is foolish to me is the need you all seem to have to maintain the beliefs I have have conclusively shown to be flat out News video of a Imam preaching hate and from a position of authority calling for the deaths of gay people 3 weeks and less than 20 miles from the night club that got shot up, and you hear absolutely nothing about it. Why? It is because someone in a position of authority has squelched the circulation of this story. as it shines a negative light on this world view about tolerance and islam being a religion of peace, and the fact that one of the presidential candidates has committed to increase the flow of Syrian refugees 500% if she gets elected..

This all could be a coincidence, but again why has no one ran with this story?

Nope. My anti-indoctrination software's been recently updated.

Not sure why you would actually suggest that, without actually being clear on my thoughts regarding the matter. The leaps and bounds you're willing to take when making assumptions about people is astonishing, Drich. I've never seen anything quite like it.

I'm clear in your oppsition/the fact that you are trying your best to remain in the middle. You are refuting any information that would make you think differently. that my poor sister is the indoctrination hard at work...

heh heh...Last I heard it wasn't douchebag liberals who wanted to block any attempts at limiting hate-speech as being an attacks on religious expression. 

Can't have it both ways, sir.

citation please
(we shall see)

No, Drich. I'm referring to the safety of ordinary American citizens, including those who just happen be, or are even perceived as being Muslim.

So a hand full of out of hundreds of millions means we all must be kept in the dark and feed a load of BS? Guess what.. That does not work. It just makes us weak ignorant and vulnerable.

Truly look at how obvlious most of you are about basic islam... Which means anyone of that religion can say anything no matter how far fetched and you accept it (Cough* Islam is a religion of peace)

There's no hypocrisy. I'm actually of the opinion that radical Islam currently poses a greater security threat to the U.S. and U.S. interests than radical Christianity; I'm simply capable of recognizing the clear distinction between that, and the assertion that all or "most Muslims" are a security threat.

An important distinction...particularly when it comes to determining just what in the Hell's to be done about it, don't you think?

And what I am telling you, and what this video in the OP is telling you and what your president (albeit for a different reason) is telling you, there isn't any such thing as 'radical islam.' Radical islam would be possible if it were splintered like Christianity.. but it is not. Sunni Islam is the predominate sect. and what we deem as 'radical islam' is a perfectly acceptable expression of the muslim faith if indeed one is called to it.

Which again, my point being this guy was making a go of living in a westernized way till he heard the call to what you call radical Islam. that is the danger I am trying to show you guys. Anyone at any point having a crisis of faith/religion can be turned into a literal bomb, and this religion totally clashes with any societal rules/norms outside of it's own, that means a crisis of faith is bound to be a struggle every 'westernized' Muslim has to deal with or reconcile in one way or another.

[Athene]

And what I am telling you, and what this video in the OP is telling you and what your president (albeit for a different reason) is telling you, there isn't any such thing as 'radical islam.' Radical islam would be possible if it were splintered like Christianity.. but it is not. Sunni Islam is the predominate sect. and what we deem as 'radical islam' is a perfectly acceptable expression of the muslim faith if indeed one is called to it.

Which again, my point being this guy was making a go of living in a westernized way till he heard the call to what you call radical Islam. that is the danger I am trying to show you guys. Anyone at any point having a crisis of faith/religion can be turned into a literal bomb, and this religion totally clashes with any societal rules/norms outside of it's own, that means a crisis of faith is bound to be a struggle every 'westernized' Muslim has to deal with or reconcile in one way or another.

Why do you feel that everyone here (and Americans in general, I presume) requires Drich to explain the inherent dangers of fundamentalism to them, and that followers of Islam consist of a remarkably high number of fundamentalists? I have no need for you to spell that out for me.

Perhaps the coverage by the news outlets in your area was skewed, but the reports I've seen in regards to this story have overwhelmingly covered it a terror attack, not a hate crime. The fact that a measure of attention was been given to the LGBT community in light of the attack due to the fact that all of the victims were gay, doesn't translate into a failure to see the big picture. This story, as any other story, has moving parts; I reject the notion that the ability to recognize that automatically means that one is clueless, on the fence, or indoctrinated.

You might consider that it's your apparent hysteria that are others choosing not to to buy into. Perhaps they think it's counterproductive, and poses as much of a threat as the potential "could be's" in your "what if's".

Just a thought.

[Mister Agenda]

I am sorry you think I thought both those sects split from Sunni Islam when it was just the Ahmadiyya that did.

And swing and another miss!!
That strike two sport
The Ahmadiyya were spawned from the theological ideologies of  Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi. Mr. Batalvi belonged to the Ahle Hadith sect
Hadrhat just popularized what he agreed Maulvi had to say.

https://www.alislam.org/library/history/...yya/3.html

Ahle Hadith is a Sunni sect.