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Why Btonze Age?
#31
RE: Why Btonze Age?
So this whole iron/bronze thing is about how far back in antiquity the bullshit was supposedly documented?
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#32
RE: Why Btonze Age?
(July 1, 2016 at 7:55 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
(July 1, 2016 at 2:15 pm)abaris Wrote: It pretty much boils down to weaponry. As is often the case with humanity. Iron gave you a literal edge over bronze. So Iron had an advantage. Not only in war, but also in terms of agriculture.

Yeah but it is a bit more complicated than that.  The Greek hoplites, who were sine qua non as a military force wore bronze armor and had bronze spear points until fairly late in the hoplite period when they switched to a, believe it or not, laminate armor!  Even the earliest hoplite swords, the xiphos were made of bronze.  I suppose much of it depended on what was available.  You needed copper and tin for bronze.  For sea-faring trading states like Athens, Phoenicia or Carthage obtaining the raw materials was fairly easy.  For states like Sparta it was probably a little more difficult.  Nonetheless, they managed.

I suspect the one thing that led to iron's eventual preference was that it was much more common and thus cheaper to produce.  I don't know that it produced "better" weapons but it sure as shit could produce more weapons.
Laminate can be pretty damn strong, it's laminate that makes a modern mechanical recurve work.  

However, more was the selling point.  The casting process for bronze had overlap with the hammering process for iron, and a short iron could slice bronze studded like butter, allowing for close range "testudo" formations with cheaper, shorter swords that turned phalanxes into meat.  Cheaper being important.   Predictably, "bronze god" was powerless against the economy and strength of iron regardless of the strength of his laminate, thus Judges 1:19 and the rise of cultures which occupied iron rich lands.

Perhaps more important, militarily, than all of that, was irons ability to form a heavy moldboard plow that could cut the sod of europe (and truly cultivate medi soil). If I had a few ounces of iron I'd beat it into a ploughshare rather than sword, because I could pay for, and feed, more soldiers off that plow than I could from a long iron knife.
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#33
RE: Why Btonze Age?
The Roman dominance by the manipular legion over the phalanx was tactical.  The Romans were far more mobile and could easily overlap the tighter formation of the Greeks.  Unlike the Greeks who tried to stab with their spears, the Romans threw their pila and then closed with the sword.

Oh.  The Romans usually outnumbered the Greeks too and had better cavalry and skirmish troops.
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#34
RE: Why Btonze Age?
Actually, iron makes inferior edged weapons compare to bronze,  Iron was mainly cheaper and thus can be more readily used to equip massed armies with spear tips and arrow points.  

It was steel that makes better edged weapons.

Also iron could not be shaped as easily as bronze, so iron can't be made as readily into fancy muscle cuirass.

But Tests show laminated linen cuirass used by later hop elites afforded better protection than bronze cuirass for the same weight, and was likely far cheaper.
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#35
RE: Why Btonze Age?
Mythbusters checked out paper laminate armor. They failed to kill Tori. AGAIN!
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#36
RE: Why Btonze Age?
Did you see the one where they demonstrated that the piece of silk on the back of a horseman could stop an arrow?
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#37
RE: Why Btonze Age?
(July 2, 2016 at 11:13 am)Minimalist Wrote: Did you see the one where they demonstrated that the piece of silk on the back of a horseman could stop an arrow?

I didn't see it on mythbusters but in another documentary. About these contraptions on the backs of Japanese Samurai.

[Image: DATETsukaibanHORO2.jpg]

SWome british military historian, who's featured quite often in these kinds of documentaries presented it by trying out himself. Soemhow I never can't remember his name.

This guy.

[Image: hqdefault.jpg]
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#38
RE: Why Btonze Age?
Yeah.  That's the gizmo.

There is an old quote about an arrow in long flight not being able to penetrate the sheerest cloth.  Seems to be true.
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#39
RE: Why Btonze Age?
(July 2, 2016 at 11:33 am)Minimalist Wrote: Yeah.  That's the gizmo.

There is an old quote about an arrow in long flight not being able to penetrate the sheerest cloth.  Seems to be true.

Far as I understand it, it's the pocket of air stopping it.
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#40
RE: Why Btonze Age?
I doubt the rider would have cared about the physics as long as he didn't get an arrow in his back.
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