Forgiveness, with a twist ?

[vorlon13]

Or is this how it works ??

OK, couple years ago, a nice couple I work for had an unpleasant experience with an employee who stole around a million clams from their business!!  Anyhow, she was telling me the particulars, and it was kinda sad, and kinda dumb, but criminy, it was a million bucks !!  I could see how a percentage of people might get into the jam this employee was in, but the logic of her 'solution' to her money problems was really effed up.

Anyhow, the employee was convicted, and is going to do some time (for a million bucks, to me the time seems on the low side, by quite a bit).  After the trial, before being hauled away she indicated she wanted this couple to come up to the lawyers table and she broke down apologizing for the disaster.  This couple were moved to tears themselves and said they no longer held any ill will towards her and they were sorry they were all at this bad juncture.

OK, fast forward a ways;

I'm watching a plastic surgery show, and this individual has been horribly disfigured by a quack plastic surgeon.  This person declined to testify against the quack as they had already moved on, had forgiven them, and that was it.  (the quack was still convicted, BTW) Anyhow, after many years, plastic surgery techniques advanced enough for an attempt to be made to fix the disfigurement.  The doctors commented what a special person this was, especially regarding the attitude towards the quack, and felt highly motivated to do their best to fix the problems.


Well, these 2 cases in particular showed me some aspects of forgiveness that earlier in my life I might have dismissed.

But now, I'm not so sure.


'Logically', forgiving someone for something might be construed to a degree as 'rewarding bad behavior' and is actually unfair to all the people who have not effed up in that way too.

But, the flip side, (in my twisted head) is maybe to see my way to forgiving after a suitable (non-infinite) time period for them to reflect perhaps, on their transgression, and then, yeah forgive them and put things back where they were.


And give them another bite at the apple to fuck up again and then drop them in a wood chipper.


OK, I have a ways to go, clearly, but meh, it's a step down the right path . . .


finally.

[Losty]

There's a difference between being forgiven and being excused. I liked the first story but not the second. By refusing to testify against someone who committed a crime against you, you are upping the possibility that they might commit the same crime against someone else. While I think forgiveness is healthier than holding grudges, I don't think not forgiving someone is necessarily bad and I definitely would never judge someone who could not forgive a violator who committed a crime against them.

[vorlon13]

yeah, the second one is really different.

As for the disfigurement, at the time of the trial, and maybe for 10 years or so, it looked like it was impossible to fix the damage. Only with the advancement of surgical and pharmaceutical treatments was it even deemed worth an attempt at fixing the damage.

Also, in the plastic surgery case, I think the victim felt some degree of responsibility for the disfigurement in that the individual had costing information from actual board certified plastic surgeons, and was motivated to save some significant money and have the procedure done in literally a garage.

Does that change the equation a bit ??

[Losty]

It makes the "victim" even more of an idiot...

[Jackalope]

I can forgive someone for wrongdoing - but that doesn't necessarily overcome the desire/need to be made whole. (e.g. I'm not going to hold onto bad feelings but you're paying me back.)

I think that attitude is reasonable. I think restitution is a necessary part of it so as to not be enabling of bad behavior, whether through carelessness or malice.

[vorlon13]

I'm holding out for a cessation of whatever put 'em on the shit list in the first place, of course.

[Joods]

I can forgive certain things, but there are some things that are clearly unforgivable.

Like when family repeated stabs you in the back and sides with a psychopathic abuser and lies to get your kids taken when you aren't a bad parent at all.

Yeah. That sort of stuff.

[Minimalist]

(for a million bucks, to me the time seems on the low side, by quite a bit)

Hey, this is 'murrica.  Steal $50 from a 7-11 and you'll do hard time if you're lucky enough that the cops don't shoot you on sight.  But when you start stealing millions the justice system gets all misty-eyed!

[vorlon13]

I had made a point of acting as though a high school teacher I had (over 40 years ago) that I very occasionally run into was invisible and inaudible. (I won't go into specifics, but he humiliated me in class one day to the extent everyone else was laughing at me, instead of with, I never forget that)

I recently encountered him and engaged in small talk.  I'll never be warm an effusive to him, but I don't think after 4 decades 'social death' is warranted.

I managed to be civil to a cousins MiL recently, she's never actually offended me, but she's nevertheless a vile person.

Also, I would talk to another cousin now if I run into her.  For starters, she never shuts up, so she may not be aware I'm giving her the cold shoulder anyhow, and the 'incident' that annoys me has been adjudicated in her divorce for her cretin husband.  (I had given him some stereo equipment for his car, and she got POd at him at some point and had burned most of his clothing and destroyed his car stereo.  He had the balls to ask for another, which earned them both a place on the dishonor roll)

Anyhow, my period of 'glasnost and perestroika' stems from the embezzlement and cosmetic surgery instances of forgiving. Else I it might never have occurred to me to change "The Policy".

[Expired]

Maybe it was the regular sized people.