The Big Bang is evidence for the existence of the supernatural

[Tiberius]

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

[Entropist]

He's simply going to request 'proof' on the matter and regardless of how much evidence I supply, I've no reason to believe he'll do anything other than disregard all of it and move the goalpost of the burdon of proof he keeps making sure is mine until his expectations are largely unrealistic and he declares victory.

In the end, its the only defense the religious have ever had.

[NoGodaloud ?]

He's already showed that he doesn't accept scientific papers, textbooks, and now book quotes.

quit on the contrary. See over the other thread. i have picked one paper of yours, which you presented. We can discuss it indepth.

[everythingafter]

And based on the same reasoning, i conclude with a great deal of certainty, God exists.
The very existence of our universe, its beginning, the fine-tuning of the laws of nature, the constants of physics, and the initial conditions of the universe, the contained specific and complex information in DNA, the complexity of a cell and its irreducible complexity, human consciousness and ability of speech and thinkink, its consciousness of morality, and the bible do let me conclude with a great deal of certainty, God exists. Where is the difference ?

Richard Dawkins, Kenneth Miller and other scientists, who are sincerely attempting to come to logical rather than fanciful ways to explain the concepts you mention here, have addressed these points over and over, especially irreducible complexity and the "fine-tuning," as you call it, of the universe (I would say that's a misnomer). To ignore them and revert back to a prime mover to explain everything is lazy, for if we are resigned to take only that approach, we might as well stop trying to do science at all. As for the Bible as proof of anything other than man's fear of death and desire to believe anything ... please.

[Captain Scarlet]

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:
That's how we know for the exact same reason that if we find a bloody knife in someone's back with the fingerprints of a specific jilted lover, we can conclude with a great deal of certainty that someone at a specific moment in time, based on evidence, that the jilted lover murdered the poor sap with the knife in the back.

Nogodaloud Wrote:
And based on the same reasoning, i conclude with a great deal of certainty, God exists.

@Nogodaloud

Nope your reasoning (apart from being circular) is that you have concluded that the guilty party was an invisible sky fairy. Nice work Columbo!

[SleepingDemon]

Hasn't it ever occurred to theists that if the conditions were not right, if the required elements and forces in the universe did not come together at the exact time necessary that we simply wouldn't exist? If life did not occur here on Earth through some cataclysmic halt to the natural process by which we did form from microbrial life, leave the water, and evolve into a wide variety of species spanning billions of years then it simply would have happened somewhere else. The problem isn't the mathematical probability of events happening at the right moment, the problem is that most of us cannot wrap our heads around our sheer and utter insignificance in the grand scheme of things.

This planet may be fine tuned for us, but it would have to be, otherwise we wouldn't exist, and life on some other planet would be discussing this very same issue.

[Paul the Human]

This planet may be fine tuned for us, but it would have to be, otherwise we wouldn't exist, and life on some other planet would be discussing this very same issue.

Life on some other planet is just as likely to be discussing the very same issue, whether we are here doing so or not.

[SleepingDemon]

True, just thought it would be a way to round out the point.

[Minimalist]

Hasn't it ever occurred to theists that if the conditions were not right, if the required elements and forces in the universe did not come together at the exact time necessary that we simply wouldn't exist?

The short answer to your question is "no." That's because their Big Book of Bullshit tells them that their sky-daddy made the world especially for them.

Really, when you think about it, a person has to be a grade-A moron to believe such nonsense.