Why is life programmed to survive?

[Macoleco]

Jenny A your answer would be appropiate if there was evidence of life with no will to survive.

There is none. Therefore you answer is wrong too.

(I dont know to quote in this forum)

[Arkilogue]

Of course.  And life does this as it must in whatever way it does and the survivors reproduce.  What do you think we are arguing about?  I concede that everything must be accommodated by life .. forces, materials, predators, same-niche competitors, you name it.  You keep mentioning more of these but why?  

My only point is that none of these things are exercising intention.  There is not only no designer there is also no plan being carried out of any kind.  Do you speak zen?  Do you know the poem:

The wild geese do not intend to cast their reflection, and the water has no mind to retain their image.

Similarly life does not intend to survive to reproduce itself, rather, that which survives to reproduce will most often produce more life of the same kind because that is all that it can do.  The cosmos has no mind to impose anything, rather, the cosmos just is the totality of forces and materials with which all life must contend.  Is there intentionality behind the composition of the cosmos?  Of what would that consist?  I don't think so.

Does order and design require intention? Does a human father or mother design the fetus? No, the design of the fetus is inherent in the DNA re-combination of the parents. No "intelligent design" required. I have found the same in the relationship of the universe to God. The order/design is inherent in the Origin, it is geometric and self limiting. Even science speaks of the current individuation of forces and things as in inherent and "unfolded/unfurled" from the singularity of space/time/matter/forces before inflation.

Only the media representation of the singularity, with all that black nothing space outside, violates it's own logic from the get go. There is no space outside the singularity, the only valid point of perspective is within the singularity. There is no single center in radial relation to a membrane and space outside that does not exist. And if you screw up the start, everything down the line will retain the error of perspective.

Nice poem!

From what I have found in macro universal structure (several nested structures), life is inevitable and the total vibration of these structures on the fabric of space-time directly pattern for DNA. Geometrically.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Order to whom?

To those who think in terms of order and chaos, of course.

I think you got me on beehives, but beaver dams are a hodgepodge pile of the bones and chewed off limbs of innocent trees.

The actual lay of the branches and twigs may seem disorderly, but they produce order in the environment, in the sense that they tend to reduce the randomness of currents in that body of water.

Automobiles here mean strip mines and polluting factories over there. What "order" do we add to the earth?

Metallurgy of all sorts separates the metal from its ores; refining ores is an exercise in increasing the orderliness of the metallic atoms.

Our current form of consumer civilization is causing the 6th mass extinction of earths biodiversity.  "We" are creating disorder with reckless abandon and almost zero foresight.

A reduction in biodiversity is not necessarily a reduction in order. This is a false equivocation.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The original order is no more.

That doesn't matter. When measuring entropy, what matters is relative order. The original order may be no more -- it may be replaced by a higher level of orderliness -- and that is certainly not entropy.

The original order of a metal ore -- say, bauxite -- is entirely destroyed by the extraction of the aluminum. That doesn't mean that you have increased chaos. Indeed, because you've separated the aluminum and the dross, you've increased the order, locally.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Many have said that it is in order to reproduce, but why?

Because nothing that doesn't reproduce is around for you observe.

You insist on injecting a why into a mechanistic operation. I wonder why that is?

Jenny A your answer would be appropiate if there was evidence of life with no will to survive.

There is none. Therefore you answer is wrong too.

(I dont know to quote in this forum)

If you know her answer is wrong, perhaps you can reveal the right answer yourself?

I'm beginning to smell an agenda.

As for your first sentence, who's to say that some fossils we've found aren't evidence of life which lacked this putative "will to survive"? You?

[Arkilogue]

Order to whom?

To those who think in terms of order and chaos, of course.

I think you got me on beehives, but beaver dams are a hodgepodge pile of the bones and chewed off limbs of innocent trees.

The actual lay of the branches and twigs may seem disorderly, but they produce order in the environment, in the sense that they tend to reduce the randomness of currents in that body of water.

Automobiles here mean strip mines and polluting factories over there. What "order" do we add to the earth?

Metallurgy of all sorts separates the metal from its ores; refining ores is an exercise in increasing the orderliness of the metallic atoms.

Our current form of consumer civilization is causing the 6th mass extinction of earths biodiversity.  "We" are creating disorder with reckless abandon and almost zero foresight.

A reduction in biodiversity is not necessarily a reduction in order. This is a false equivocation.

Okay.

And of the flooding damage/disorder beaver damns cause?

It sure does. And what ratio of earth is disordered for the amount of ordered metal atoms produced?
Let's take a look at gold: http://www.visualcapitalist.com/what-is-...ning-gold/
Top 50 grade producing mines move an average of 9.39 tons of earth for an amount of gold the size of a golf ball.

How so? Lets just take one organism out of the biodiversity pool...how about all bee's? I wonder what disorder that might cause the biosphere let alone human civilization?

[RozKek]

Jenny A your answer would be appropiate if there was evidence of life with no will to survive.

There is none. Therefore you answer is wrong too.

(I dont know to quote in this forum)

What you said makes no sense, what Jenny said is something simple that can be concluded based on our current knowledge, it doesn't take a genius. The will to live is an emotion, a desire, ok? That emotion or will we have is caused by our genetics. The organisms that never got this strong will to live because of their genetical makeup never survived.

[Arkilogue]

The original order is no more.

That doesn't matter. When measuring entropy, what matters is relative order. The original order may be no more -- it may be replaced by a higher level of orderliness -- and that is certainly not entropy.

The original order of a metal ore -- say, bauxite -- is entirely destroyed by the extraction of the aluminum. That doesn't mean that you have increased chaos. Indeed, because you've separated the aluminum and the dross, you've increased the order, locally.

Locally...what about globally? As in all the external ramifications of the entire process at all affected locations, not just the shiny trinket at the end.

In the mining/metal smelting example we are exploring, it seems a great deal of environmental destruction (disorder) is require to make a very little amount of ordered/refined material.

Of course are biased to think highly of the ordered part because we get to play with the shiny trinket at the end.

[RozKek]

Many have said that it is in order to reproduce, but why? This need to survive and reproduce exist even in animals who dont think. Therefore "Will" does not need to be involved.

So far the only answer that has made me think a little is the one by "Rhythm", saying that life is not programmed to survive and therefore the question makes no sense. I would like to know why he thinks this way, and why those words are euphisms.

Then "CapnAwesome" said that the "will to survive in inherent of life". Why? And what if we havent discovered life that has no will to live? Maybe it exists, somewhere.

Also, most replies are a discussion between the dog and telestic dude.

It isn't in order to reproduce either. The will to reproduce would be a part of that will to survive and the will to survive has no meaning nor purpose to it, it just is the way some organisms act as opposed to some who didn't - because of the genetics.

[Arkilogue]

Jenny A your answer would be appropiate if there was evidence of life with no will to survive.

There is none. Therefore you answer is wrong too.

(I dont know to quote in this forum)

What you said makes no sense, what Jenny said is something simple that can be concluded based on our current knowledge, it doesn't take a genius. The will to live is an emotion, a desire, ok? That emotion or will we have is caused by our genetics. The organisms that never got this strong will to live because of their genetical makeup never survived.

Then why/how do some people loose it? I must not be hard wired...more like a suggestion.

Perhaps the will to live is like the speed limit; some people go faster, some people go slower, and some people don't take care of their car and it craps out on them in the middle of the journey.