Hi Everybody

[FadingW]

Hi Everybody.

I believe in a Jewish Zombie... who is God.

I love to talk about religion even though at times it may be like banging against a wall. Sometimes I am banging my head, and sometimes I am the wall.

I used to frequent a forum which discussed atheism, but it was really a place for people of like mind to take refuge from the oppressive conditions theists in real life continually thrust on them. I would love to talk about religion, but I got the feeling that many of the people would rather a world in which neither 'theist' nor 'atheist' had any meaning because no there was no one who believe in gods.

I used to frequent another forum which discussed religion, but eventually the religious owners of the site were more interested in one way propagandizing than two way communication. Not that I blame them, whoever owns a site should dictate the rules. But there is no fun in debating when any side has their hands tied.

Also, I am a heretic, so my views won't be representative of any other Jewish Zombie follower.

[fr0d0]

You are a heretic? Please explain.

[Edwardo Piet]

Technically, if he existed, Jesus was a heretic wasn't he?

Welcome to the forums.

[FadingW]

You are a heretic? Please explain.

Well there are bazillion different beliefs concerning gods, and even a whole bunch of variety just within christianity alone. Who is to say what is heretical and what is not except by majority?

But I do not believe that a belief is valid just because there are the most people who believe in it.

In any case, as an example of what other people would *definitely* call me out on as heretical, I voted against Prop 8.

I live in Califorinia, in America, and there has been a vote on determining whether homosexual marriage should be recognized by the state.

Seeing as the vote succeeded, perhaps half of my fellow Californians would label me a vile degenerate.

As to why I did so, I do not believe in theocracy.

For example, can one torture another into belief in a god? 1984 says in the end everyone has a limit and will 'believe' anything. But such a thing would be counterproductive because if there is such a being as a God, such 'belief' won't pass muster... and even if it did, it wouldn't be very flattering.

So as to a general principle, I do not believe in making laws to enforce religious morality even if it is my own version of morality.

There are other, non-religious, reasons why I voted against Prop 8, but this is the main religious reason I did: a vow is of no value if it was coerced, a pledge of no worth if made under duress. If there is some ideal heterosexual sacred marriage to preserve, it should be taken up on it's own merits. To force it, to me, is offensive.

I also drink Jewish Zombie blood, but sometimes I suspect it's actually grape juice.

[Cego_Colher]

So, I still don't get why you call yourself a heretic. Just because other people would label you as such does not mean you need to use that label yourself– not that it matters, of course.

Hey, there are gay evangelicals– they think the meaning of the Leviticus line is just essentially. "don't objectify a man.(or rape him.)"

Anyway, welcome.

[LastPoet]

Welcome, Herectic Zombie Lover

Btw, Technically its not grape juice, its wine, and I know about wine

[FadingW]

So, I still don't get why you call yourself a heretic. Just because other people would label you as such does not mean you need to use that label yourself– not that it matters, of course.

Hey, there are gay evangelicals– they think the meaning of the Leviticus line is just essentially. "don't objectify a man.(or rape him.)"

Anyway, welcome.

That's title's mostly jest, but it is true that my views are not necessarily those of mainstream christianity.

For example, I do not believe that the existence of the universe is proof of God. The existence of the universe may be proof of the universe, but it does not necessitate that God exist to create it.

Moreover, I do not believe that there is proof that any gods exist. There might be proof somewhere, but I have not discovered it. In this sense, you could call me an agnostic theist. Also in the sense that I am skeptical of whether it is possible to know whether god exists.

We could dismiss specific gods depending on the characteristics, but a Deist God for example would be hard to refute concretely... but then again a Deist God is functionally identical to that universe where there never was a god.

Heh. Most evangelicals, even gay evangelicals, might find that rather heretical.

And, yes, I am aware that there are many gay evangelicals. No offense to gay people, but there's a joke about evangelical Republicans...

[Edwardo Piet]

So, I still don't get why you call yourself a heretic.

I'm not too far off calling myself one. It's one of my favourite words. I think it's a cool fucking term. And it makes me feel unique and rebellious.

I haven't bothered labelling myself it at least yet, but if others label me it they're more than welcome

My love of the word ...is partly influenced by one of my favourite games of all time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heretic_%28video_game%29

Well actually it's basically entirely influenced by it. It makes me think of one of my favourite games of all time whenever anyone uses the word. The main reason being that I first played the game before I even knew what the word meant, when I was a kid, so I know the word "Heretic" from the game from since before I knew the actual definition.

[fr0d0]

You are a heretic? Please explain.

---

Well there are bazillion different beliefs concerning gods, and even a whole bunch of variety just within christianity alone. Who is to say what is heretical and what is not except by majority?

But I do not believe that a belief is valid just because there are the most people who believe in it.

In any case, as an example of what other people would *definitely* call me out on as heretical, I voted against Prop 8.

I live in Califorinia, in America, and there has been a vote on determining whether homosexual marriage should be recognized by the state.

Seeing as the vote succeeded, perhaps half of my fellow Californians would label me a vile degenerate.

As to why I did so, I do not believe in theocracy.

For example, can one torture another into belief in a god? 1984 says in the end everyone has a limit and will 'believe' anything. But such a thing would be counterproductive because if there is such a being as a God, such 'belief' won't pass muster... and even if it did, it wouldn't be very flattering.

So as to a general principle, I do not believe in making laws to enforce religious morality even if it is my own version of morality.

There are other, non-religious, reasons why I voted against Prop 8, but this is the main religious reason I did: a vow is of no value if it was coerced, a pledge of no worth if made under duress. If there is some ideal heterosexual sacred marriage to preserve, it should be taken up on it's own merits. To force it, to me, is offensive.

I also drink Jewish Zombie blood, but sometimes I suspect it's actually grape juice.

---

1. Well Mainstream Christians all agree with the Nicene Crede, and God is the same for all of us.
2. Absolutely, majority means nothing
3. I agree with you on Prop 8 and I find that doesn't contradict Christianity
4. I don't believe in a theocracy either
5. No you can't torture anyone into belief. That's why heresy is a contradiction.

[Cego_Colher]

EvF- you're not religious, but I do happen to agree that it's a cool word.