Most people are sheep . . . great experiment!

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yeah, Milgram's work too. Sad stuff.

This kind of innate behaviour is also quite useful, in fact it's far more often useful rather than not, especially in today's complex world. People just need to educate themselves about it in order to know how to counter this same kind of thing when it acts against them instead.

Insofar as intratribal relations, sure, it can be of use. But as Milgram showed, it can also be abused to override our own ethics. Therein lies the sadness, I feel.

[robvalue]

Great video, thanks!

I knew people were pretty easy to manipulate on the whole. I didn't realise quite how easy.

I think this makes sense from an evolutionary point of view. And it's probably why people fall for the argument from popularity so much. You don't want to risk some sort of possible danger by deviating from the group, or to be excluded from the group.

[Excited Penguin]

Great video, thanks!

I knew people were pretty easy to manipulate on the whole. I didn't realise quite how easy.

I think this makes sense from an evolutionary point of view. And it's probably why people fall for the argument from popularity so much. You don't want to risk some sort of possible danger by deviating from the group, or to be excluded from the group.

Malevolent manipulation aside, this kind of comformity keeps society going on a bunch of levels. It doesn't just make sense as an evolutionary artifact, it makes sense today as well - I just want to know if you agree with that.

This has more to do with the  Bandwagon Effect , rather than the Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy, but I see your point.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think benefit comes from both the conformity you're lauding, and also from nonconformity. If you look at, say, how new hypotheses/theories gain acceptance in science, to use an obvious example, you'll see a situation where updates are often eschewed in favor of the theory in place, even though the theory in place is not as powerful in explanation. But the old scientists fight a rearguard action preserving what they've learned rather than accepting a new and more powerful model. And it's not until the die off that the new theory gains ascendance. Wegener's plate-tectonics theory is a prime example.

I think the tension between conformity and nonconformity in larger society works in much the same way -- indeed, I feel that tug-of-war inside myself; I cling to what I learnt as a lad, and must exert effort to expand my knowledge base.

It's good to know things. But it's not so good that one should favor given knowledge a priori. Openness to new information is required.

[Excited Penguin]

I never gave the impression that I didn't appreciate noncomformity's uses, but thank you for your cogent response all the same.

[robvalue]

I've always been a non-sheep. Even when I was very young. It led to me being bullied all through school. It's not like I even consciously thought, "I refuse to copy everyone else". It's just how I was. Giving in and being a sheep would have probably saved me a lot of hassle. But I don't regret it.

Now that I'm older, I pride myself on free though and investigating ideas on their own merit rather than popularity.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I never gave the impression that I didn't appreciate noncomformity's uses, but thank you for your cogent response all the same.

I didn't say you gave that impression. I added my own opinion. Just because a thought is not yours does not mean it's pointed at you.

[paulpablo]

I've been in situations in real life like one of these experiments.

I was on a national express coach (English version of greyhound bus) and the driver had a radio station on that was just pure loud static.
No one complained or said anything, it was like something from the twilight zone, I was looking around thinking am I the only one who can hear this shit?
I don't know if it's because I'm irritable or non sheep like but I walked right down the isle, past about 15 people who didn't say anything for whatever reason and turned the drivers radio to a station that was actually picking up music and he just said thanks.

I think it's something to do with shyness and a fear of standing out.

I think it's more of a spectrum rather than just being a sheep or not being a sheep, there might be situations where I'd go for the sheep option but most times I'm not shy about questioning something, especially if the risk is just social ostracism rather than violence.

I'd say I have a friend who's definitely on the high sheep end of the spectrum, the type of person who's humiliated even by tripping up a bit in front of strangers, who has to wear what their friends are wearing no matter what, for example skinny jeans even in really hot weather.

[Excited Penguin]

To willingly choose to be a comformist in this day and age can be noncomformist in itself. It all depends on context, of course. It's generally not a good idea to be either just for the sake of it, but rather to be able to ponder which is better to be in any given situation, or in even whole sets of similar ones at that.

A lot of things go into whether you're going to be comformist about something or not, though, such as temperament and the degree of societal pressure to which one is subjected to regarding any one topic in particular.

I never gave the impression that I didn't appreciate noncomformity's uses, but thank you for your cogent response all the same.

I didn't say you gave that impression. I added my own opinion. Just because a thought is not yours does not mean it's pointed at you.

You were specifically addressing someone who has lauded comformity, so you were either talking to me, Aroura, or both. As such, I had to make sure I wasn't misunderstood.

[Thumpalumpacus]

You were specifically addressing someone who has lauded comformity, so you were either talking to me, Aroura, or both. As such, I had to make sure I wasn't misunderstood.

It was the general "you", not aimed at anyone in this thread.

For future reference -- if I'm not quoting you, any "you" you might read is general and not specific.