Reverse Pascals Wager

[Godscreated]

I think our version of Pascal's Wager should be:

If God is just, what does the unbeliever have to fear?
If God is not just, what does the believer hope to serve?

Long version:

Ok, let's assume there's a god. Let's assume there's an afterlife. Let's assume said afterlife is the judgment day model that Islamo-Christians are so fond of. All that assumed, what is this judgment based on?

If God is just, than our character would be fairly evaluated regardless of how much we suck up. What kind of a judge let's criminals go just because they say "you're so great!"? If this is the case, God's favor couldn't be bought with praise and faith. Our character would have to be evaluated without prejudice. If this is the case, what do we need religion for? We can follow our own moral compass and be just fine by trying to live as best as we can, just like if there were no afterlife.

If God evaluates our character on our faith, then Islamo-Christians abandon all pretense that they serve a just god. Heaven becomes a reward for the suck-ups while Hell is a purile punishment for those who won't kiss his ass. Religion has a purpose but only in being sycophantic to an unjust god.

Why do you presume you can set the rules for God's court. God has already set the rules and guess what you can not get in on your own merit it will not stand up to God's rules. There are two ways one can enter heaven.
1) You can be judged by God's perfect standard by your own merit. (Fail)
2) You can allow Christ and His perfect life to stand in your place and be jugded for you. (Pass)
Islam and Christianity do not share the same God.

[Minimalist]

What I find amusing about Pascal's so-called wager is it reduces faith (which is presumably central to Christianity) to a mere bet

Even better, it reduces their so-called "all-knowing" god to a buffoon who is easily fooled.

[Edwardo Piet]

Part of what makes us human is overcoming adversity, being able to grow as people, struggling, feeling loss as well as great joy. Could anyone really say they want to go to heaven. Mindless worshipping living in joy forever!

Well if you find Heaven dull or mindless or unappealing in any way then it's clearly not "heaven". Heaven surely would have to be, heavenly, otherwise it's not Heaven.

Likewise, Hell cannot be pleasant in any way otherwise it's clearly not "Hell", hell surely must be hellish by definition.

Assuming we go by Heaven=eternal bliss and hell=eternal torture.... Heaven must be blissful and Hell must be torturous.

[downbeatplumb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4AXOmPZ6fo

[Cego_Colher]

Islam and Christianity do not share the same God.

They don't? I thought they just disagreed on who was the chosen son of Abram. Yes it's in Genesis, but that's after the god created everything. Yeah, the god does some different things, but originally–same one––and then Jesus comes along.

[Tiberius]

@downbeatplumb

That's an argument I've used before, although without the bit about angels and cream cakes XD

[fr0d0]

Islam and Christianity do not share the same God.

They don't? I thought they just disagreed on who was the chosen son of Abram. Yes it's in Genesis, but that's after the god created everything. Yeah, the god does some different things, but originally–same one––and then Jesus comes along.

No the god of Islam is very different in many ways that are incompatible with the Christian God.

[Zen Badger]

Why do you presume you can set the rules for God's court. God has already set the rules and guess what you can not get in on your own merit it will not stand up to God's rules. There are two ways one can enter heaven.

And you base this on what? The bible? It has already been established that the bible isn't worth the toilet paper it is printed on. Try again.

1) You can be judged by God's perfect standard by your own merit. (Fail)
2) You can allow Christ and His perfect life to stand in your place and be jugded for you. (Pass)

So you can live a good moral life and it won't mean a friggin' thing unless you are prepared to massage gods delicate little ego by telling him how wonderful he is every damn day, for eternity.
How very,very just.......
I'll also make the point that your pathetic little god appears to be punishing us for his own ineptitude in the(according to the bible anyway) way he made us.

Islam and Christianity do not share the same God.

Yes they do.

P.s god isn't perfect, not if he doesn't know that bats are mammals, not birds.

[Captain Scarlet]

Part of what makes us human is overcoming adversity, being able to grow as people, struggling, feeling loss as well as great joy. Could anyone really say they want to go to heaven. Mindless worshipping living in joy forever!

Well if you find Heaven dull or mindless or unappealing in any way then it's clearly not "heaven". Heaven surely would have to be, heavenly, otherwise it's not Heaven.
Likewise, Hell cannot be pleasant in any way otherwise it's clearly not "Hell", hell surely must be hellish by definition.
Assuming we go by Heaven=eternal bliss and hell=eternal torture.... Heaven must be blissful and Hell must be torturous.

That would be a relativist view surely. So a masochistic may naturally choose hell but if they meet gods standards heaven for them would be hell. Surely that is wrong. From what we are told heaven seems dull and sterile.

[Edwardo Piet]

Well surely Heaven and Hell has to be subjective otherwise they are pointless as concepts.

A masochist enjoys pain (maybe not absolute torture though... but pain at least), so pain for him/her is pleasure. Hence why pleasure is subjective. And so is Heaven and Hell then.

If we are to define Heaven as "Eternal Bliss" and Hell as "Eternal torture", then since pleasure and pain are subjective, since emotions themselves are subjective, of course it's relative to the person somewhat.