A Loving God

[robvalue]

If our environment is the result of a loving God, what the hell would a non-loving God do to us? It's already made it almost 100% instantly deadly to us, and glued us to a rock, unable to explore the vast expanses without gargantuan effort and resources. Even then we can barely move.

You definitely see the glass as half empty (or totally empty), don't you?  If you realized what life really is you would be much more optimistic.  Atheists, with their worldview, seem to be living in a little confined box.  Put all your tools and instruments down for a little while, tune in, and experience true life.  No, I'm not talking drugs.  I'm talking about relaxing and putting your trust in someone higher than yourself.  Take a load off.

You think almost 100% deadly environment should be viewed as glass half full? He gave us one miniscule pocket of existence where we don't totally die instantly? You're incredibly easily pleased, is all I can say.

What the hell do you mean, what life really is? I've been living it for nearly 40 years. I have a pretty good idea what it is. I have no idea what you mean to put my trust in someone, or something, that I have no experience of whatsoever. Trust it to do what? In my past experience, it's done nothing. If there's anything there, I don't trust it one bit. I can relax without shirking responsibilities.

How much do you really trust it, I wonder? Do you wear a seatbelt? Do you look both ways before you cross the street? Do you go to the doctor?

You do sound exactly like you've been taking drugs, by the way. That's not personal against you, all religious people sound to me like they've been taking drugs, and that it's either them or I that aren't living in reality. Experience life? What do you think I've been doing all this time? I don't know what you think you see that I don't, or what you think is going on that I'm not aware of.

[robvalue]

PS: I don't get what you mean by "take a load off". You seem to assume all atheists are on the brink of a nervous breakdown or something. I don't get stressed out simply dealing with reality on its own terms.

I'm very much at peace with the fact that I am of no significance whatsoever on a cosmic scale, and that my experience will cease in a few score years. It's nothing to be afraid of. In fact, it's all the more incentive to experience life, because I'm not counting on some infinite overtime.

The moment which I delve totally into fantasy, be it drink or drugs, is the moment I can't deal with it anymore. Religion seems to be just another alternative.

[purplepurpose]

Believers sure sound sweet when they are preaching to new people. But to hold people in their church, they use stuff like "Gods servant now or torture in afterlife". And those who say it, are the ones who motivate themselves with this fear because they think that they are "dirty egoists".

[robvalue]

As far as I'm concerned, believe whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anyone and not indoctrinating your kids with it. I can't stand that. If something is true, it doesn't need jamming into young minds before they've even figured out how to tell reality from fiction.

I can't stop you indoctrinating your kids of course. But maybe just stop and think why you're doing it. By all means, tell them what you believe and why. That's very different.

[Primordial Bisque]

If our environment is the result of a loving God, what the hell would a non-loving God do to us? It's already made it almost 100% instantly deadly to us, and glued us to a rock, unable to explore the vast expanses without gargantuan effort and resources. Even then we can barely move.

You definitely see the glass as half empty (or totally empty), don't you?  If you realized what life really is you would be much more optimistic.  Atheists, with their worldview, seem to be living in a little confined box.  Put all your tools and instruments down for a little while, tune in, and experience true life.  No, I'm not talking drugs.  I'm talking about relaxing and putting your trust in someone higher than yourself.  Take a load off.

I don't see anything in that post as being pessimistic or optimistic. I see a point being made that, given the sheer size and volatile nature of the observable Universe an all contained within, it is totally absurd to think that we were created, for a special purpose, by an entity that loves us, or exists at all.

It's equally ridiculous to alienate reality in pursuit of an ancient myth that no longer has any relevance. I'm quite happy carving out my life, my existence, on a day to day basis - even with the knowledge that it will be over at some point. I am content with knowing that death is the ultimate end; but I am not trying to race through life to meet that end. I am also very happy to know that I can stand on my own two feet and live in this Universe without a magic crutch.

God is dead.

[KevinM1]

It's actually the other way around. By not shackling one's intellect and morality to what can be argued is a figment of the imagination, or indoctrination - or a divine puppeteer if you must - one's horizons are opened up at least as wide as one's dreams. It's truly exhilarating how liberating an experience it can be.

Then why are you all so uptight in this forum?

Likely because we don't suffer fools... >_>

[KevinM1]

And, as a general statement, I'm far more inspired, my imagination is far more ignited, by someone like Elon Musk and his vision of humanity than any so-called holy man. There's something inherently distasteful with relying on a higher power to do anything. It emasculates us as a species, and sets our sights merely on the ground before us. Fuck that. I want to reach for all of existence. To stand on our own two feet without aid.

Stand tall and shake the heavens.

[Lek]

And, as a general statement, I'm far more inspired, my imagination is far more ignited, by someone like Elon Musk and his vision of humanity than any so-called holy man.  There's something inherently distasteful with relying on a higher power to do anything.  It emasculates us as a species, and sets our sights merely on the ground before us.  Fuck that.  I want to reach for all of existence.  To stand on our own two feet without aid.

Stand tall and shake the heavens.

I agree with you. So reach for all of existence.

[Pat Mustard]

You do know that water is matter, correct? Or are you that scientifically illiterate that you don't understand basic terms taught to five year olds?

Comparing infinitely dense matter to an ocean is like comparing a lead paper weight to a glass of tea.

You've obviously never drank a proper cup of builder's tay I see.

[robvalue]

By the way, I generally take people at their word that they believe in the particular mythology that they profess to. I believe they are experiencing something, which they genuinely think is related to it.

They can't expect me to suddenly start experiencing things this way and associating everyday events with an ancient story; any more than I can expect them to stop doing so.

However, even if I did start experiencing these things, I wouldn't care. I'm not interested in worship or joining cults. I won't change my behaviour due to the opinion of some external being, unless the being explains why I should do so. "Because you'll receive lesser treatment once you're dead if you don't" is not adequate. "Because I know better than you" is also not convincing, when we're dealing with subjective value judgements. If he "loves" me, good for him.

I often ask why I should care about any of this stuff even if it is real, and it's extremely rare I get an answer besides "obey or burn" or "wouldn't it be interesting". Sure, it would indeed be interesting, if I could actually study it in any way. But it's all carefully defined to be unstudy-able.