Who's Your Favorite Historical Figure?

[Thumpalumpacus]

I was mainly referring to the polls. I can see, given the political situation back then, that Americans feared war to be inevitable although they didn't want to go to war. For me that's not a contradiction. It's a concern rather.

I agree. But if people want to quote mine the Polls that's a juicy target. It tells me much about their scholarship when they come out with this "argument". It usually begins with "America was strongly against getting into the war and FDR had to let Pearl Harbor happen to get the US properly riled up." They ignore the rest of the polls because they find them awkward.

Oh, don't mistake me -- while I've argued that there was a strong isolationist undercurrent in America at the time, the second clause of your attribution is nothing I've ever held to be true.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I agree. But if people want to quote mine the Polls that's a juicy target. It tells me much about their scholarship when they come out with this "argument". It usually begins with "America was strongly against getting into the war and FDR had to let Pearl Harbor happen to get the US properly riled up." They ignore the rest of the polls because they find them awkward.

Oh, don't mistake me -- while I've argued that there was a strong isolationist undercurrent in America at the time, the second clause of your attribution is nothing I've ever held to be true.

I'll go to Wayne Cole for my impressions of the isolationist movement in the US. He, despite being the historian for the Committee to Defend America First, can't pain a positive picture of their efforts. 

As for the public at large: Largely isolationist up to June 1940, decreasingly so at a good clip over the next 18 months.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yeah, again, that's where I made clear my own opinion covered, up to 1940. The fall of the Low Countries and France obviously changed things. Probably Murrow's reportage from London, as well.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yeah, again, that's where I made clear my own opinion covered, up to 1940. The fall of the Low Countries and France obviously changed things. Probably Murrow's reportage from London, as well.

"This is London!" 

[abaris]

Yeah, again, that's where I made clear my own opinion covered, up to 1940. The fall of the Low Countries and France obviously changed things. Probably Murrow's reportage from London, as well.

Did the general wish of not getting involved change? I see a distinct line between not wanting to go to war but fearing it to be inevitable. The only thing I get out of these polls is people getting more and more concerned and hoping for the best while fearing the worst.

There's also one other thing to consider. They knew that there was a draft and they knew they would have to risk their own hides or their loved ones. They knew that up until Vietnam, one of the major reasons why the draft had been suspended afterwards, if I'm not entirely mistaken. It's easier to incite pro war sentiment if the population at large won't be afflicted in their daily lives.

Back in the late 30ies, early 40ies that certainly was different. As in every other country participating in WWII. The only country from where I don't have reports supporting an anti war sentiment is Japan. The first war was still fresh in the minds of everyone, and while Americans didn't suffer nearly as many losses as the continental powers, they certainly saw the results.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The attitude was "We'll have to fight them sooner or later."

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Back in the late 30ies, early 40ies that certainly was different. As in every other country participating in WWII. The only country from where I don't have reports supporting an anti war sentiment is Japan. The first war was still fresh in the minds of everyone, and while Americans didn't suffer nearly as many losses as the continental powers, they certainly saw the results.

You don't get an anti-war vibe from Japan because the Imperial Rule Assistance Association wouldn't allow it and they had the backing of the Army. The 26 February Incident proved that violence was the law of the land in Japan.

[abaris]

You don't get an anti-war vibe from Japan because the Imperial Rule Assistance Association wouldn't allow it and they had the backing of the Army. The 26 February Incident proved that violence was the law of the land in Japan.

Well, Hitler's Germany didn't allow it either. But the regular reports of the SD paint a pretty realistic picture of German anti war sentiment. These reports were only used internally. So they had no incentive to lie about anything they reported.

It was also kind of obvious, even to foreign correspondents in the fall of '39 that the Germans wanted anything but war. That sentiment changed with the big victories of '40 but came back with the start of the invasion of the Soviet Union and the first large defeats in the winter of '41.

I never had access to Japanese data, so I left that one open.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You don't get an anti-war vibe from Japan because the Imperial Rule Assistance Association wouldn't allow it and they had the backing of the Army. The 26 February Incident proved that violence was the law of the land in Japan.

Well, Hitler's Germany didn't allow it either. But the regular reports of the SD paint a pretty realistic picture of German anti war sentiment. These reports were only used internally. So they had no incentive to lie about anything they reported.

It was also kind of obvious, even to foreign correspondents in the fall of '39 that the Germans wanted anything but war. That sentiment changed with the big victories of '40 but came back with the start of the invasion of the Soviet Union and the first large defeats in the winter of '41.

I never had access to Japanese data, so I left that one open.

Ienaga Saburu would be a start.

[brewer]

Andy Kaufman.