Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: February 10, 2025, 9:34 am
Atheist Forums › Community › Religion v
Information always arises from intelligence

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Thread Modes
Information always arises from intelligence
Sal Offline
Senior Member
****
Religious Views: atheist
Posts: 2692
Threads: 11
Joined: May 13, 2013
Reputation: 17
#31
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 9:10 am
(October 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm)goombah111 Wrote: or does it?

No.

"Information" is just our abstraction of ordered stuff. Like DNA has "information" about how to assemble a being, but it can just as well be a star constellation and find it to signify something, even it's just us finding patterns in the chaos.
Find
Reply
Excited Penguin Offline
Retired Soap Salesman
Religious Views: Equanimity
Posts: 9479
Threads: 116
Joined: July 5, 2015
Reputation: 22
#32
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 9:15 am
(October 31, 2016 at 9:10 am)Sal Wrote:
(October 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm)goombah111 Wrote: or does it?

No.

"Information" is just our abstraction of ordered stuff. Like DNA has "information" about how to assemble a being, but it can just as well be a star constellation and find it to signify something, even it's just us finding patterns in the chaos.

Exactly. I believe the OP is confused on this point. We process information with our brains, but information itself is just a vast set of characteristics of the natural world that we call that for simplicity's sake. It's there whether we observe it or not, so it's not predicated on the existence of any intelligence.
Find
Reply
Excited Penguin Offline
Retired Soap Salesman
Religious Views: Equanimity
Posts: 9479
Threads: 116
Joined: July 5, 2015
Reputation: 22
#33
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 9:16 am
We can certainly manipulate it though.
Find
Reply
Anomalocaris Offline
Stem arthropod
*****
Religious Views: None
Posts: 19789
Threads: 57
Joined: September 24, 2010
Reputation: 85
#34
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 9:20 am (This post was last modified: October 31, 2016 at 9:23 am by Anomalocaris.)
(October 31, 2016 at 9:06 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Intelligence trades in information, it doesn't exclusively produce it however.

Arguably all things only trade on information, modern physics says no information is ever truly created or destroyed.   It may merely be rendered accessible to our current powers, or not.   Steven Hawkins thought he was clever enough to conceive of an exception were information is truly destroyed. But his information was faulty.
Find
Reply
I_am_not_mafia Offline
Senior Member
****
Religious Views: Gnostic atheist
Posts: 7392
Threads: 53
Joined: January 15, 2015
Reputation: 88
#35
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 9:23 am
Well now we've got that all sorted out the OP doesn't need to bother replying.
Find
Reply
Edwardo Piet Away
Devil's Supercardo.
Religious Views: Atheistic panexperientialism
Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation: 132
#36
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 9:26 am
@ The OP

You've got it completely backwards. Information doesn't always arise from intelligence. Intelligence, when it does arise, always arises from information.
Find
Reply
I_am_not_mafia Offline
Senior Member
****
Religious Views: Gnostic atheist
Posts: 7392
Threads: 53
Joined: January 15, 2015
Reputation: 88
#37
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 9:36 am
(October 31, 2016 at 9:26 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: You've got it completely backwards. Information doesn't always arise from intelligence. Intelligence, when it does arise, always arises from information.

I'd agree with that. For intelligence you need two things. The ability to sense your environment and the ability to act within it. This in turn changes what you sense from your environment which changes how you act. Intelligence is part of a loop including its environment.

You can only be as intelligent as your environment has ever allowed. Yet another reason why there can't be an intelligent first cause.
Find
Reply
Edwardo Piet Away
Devil's Supercardo.
Religious Views: Atheistic panexperientialism
Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation: 132
#38
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 9:39 am
Absolutely.
Find
Reply
goombah111 Offline
Junior Member
**
Religious Views: Mix
Posts: 149
Threads: 9
Joined: October 28, 2016
Reputation: 0
#39
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 10:12 am
wow guys. OF COURSE INFORMATION ARISES WITHOUT INTELLIGENCE!

seriously, if you spent less time arguing you would know that already.

god doesnt exist,  dont be absurd.
"Satan, who is the god of this world" 2 Corinthians 4:4 hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
Find
Reply
Doubting Thomas Offline
El Conquistador
****
Religious Views: Atheist
Posts: 4940
Threads: 99
Joined: April 17, 2011
Reputation: 45
#40
RE: Information always arises from intelligence
October 31, 2016 at 1:19 pm
(October 30, 2016 at 3:58 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Or the lack thereof.

[Image: trump_supporters_shirts.jpg]

I'm guessing they only make those T-shirts in 3X and up.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Religion v
Information always arises from intelligence

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Why does science always upstage God? ignoramus 940 171917 October 26, 2022 at 10:15 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Proof and evidence will always equal Science zwanzig 103 10559 December 17, 2021 at 5:31 pm
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Why are angels always males? Fake Messiah 63 8013 October 9, 2021 at 2:26 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  If artificial super intelligence erases humans, will theists see this as God's plan? Face2face 24 6414 March 5, 2021 at 6:40 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Always Proof Your Yeast! Fuck Proof of Gods! chimp3 12 2529 September 9, 2018 at 3:46 pm
Last Post: Ravenshire
  The purpose of human life is probably to create "Artificial General Intelligence" uncool 45 10893 February 1, 2018 at 12:20 pm
Last Post: polymath257
  Why do religious people always refer to God for answers. Prince 12 4288 June 1, 2015 at 5:05 pm
Last Post: AFTT47
  Information on failed prophecy KUSA 9 2082 June 26, 2014 at 2:54 pm
Last Post: RobbyPants
  Evolution, Intelligence, Suggestibility and Religion Bipolar Bob 5 2448 November 17, 2013 at 3:43 am
Last Post: MindForgedManacle
  Is killing a Pastor always a bad thing? Mystical 85 26536 November 9, 2013 at 8:51 am
Last Post: T.J.



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)