The positive case for voting Hillary Clinton for president.

[Minimalist]

We've had about enough of that shit, haven't we?

No.  THAT is the system we have created it.

[vorlon13]

We do custom farming for a guy with a little hilltop field he wants to build a house on some day. We don't cash rent it, we don't take 1/2 or even all the crop, we just charge and charge dearly to farm it for him. It's too small to be commercially viable, but he wants it farmed to keep the trees from overtaking it before he builds there. And he gets a deduction for losing money on it.


With the uncertainty and all, I could see him never building there. I can't imagine a Hillary presidency making it easier for him to follow his dream there, and if Trump screws the pooch economy wise, he's in the same boat regardless.

Hell, even the county is throwing up things to make developing out here more difficult; minimum lot size, tightening building codes in regard to water and septic, and even maintenance of the county road his plot is on, if the county abandons it (a possibility) he won't want to build a house there that will be increasingly difficult to get to.

And more regulation of utilities will have an impact, are new hookups for electricity going to be regulated? Could he afford to have the line strung with more and more permitting possibly being involved. And he'll need a well, the DNR is throwing up more roadblocks all the time for that.

How will a Hillary admin impact all that? What could Trump do? Fucked either way . . .

[Rosie_Rivets]

This is my own personal take on the situation:

I feel that voting usually doesn't change things very much. I agree with much of the Carlin quote that everything is already bought and paid for...that's how we got Hillary. The DNC wasn't going to let Sanders win that primary. In spite of this, something different happened this year. We ended up with Trump instead of any of the other GOP contenders, and I don't think any mainstream politician saw that coming. For years the GOP has pandered to the crazies to get their votes and ended up birthing a monster that not even the Republican party could muzzle. The opened a Pandora's Box. Last year I voted for a third party because whether Obama or Romney won, the country wasn't going to burn to the ground. I wanted my vote to reflect my disgust with the limited two party system. This year I'll be participating in that system because I feel like the stakes are too high. I fucking hate Hillary Clinton. She's a lying, corporate kiss-ass who pandered her way to the top. But I will still vote for her to keep Trump out of office. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I was complacent in letting that illiterate piece of garbage sit in the White House. He is the face of everything wrong with this country and some of the people in it and he is unfit in every conceivable way. It will either be business as usual (which pisses me off), or a total dumpster fire. And so I'll swallow my bile and vote Clinton. I'm not asking anyone else to follow me, but that's my opinion on the matter.

It should have been Bernie....sigh.

[The Grand Nudger]

We've had about enough of that shit, haven't we?

No.  THAT is the system we have created it.

The past is littered with systems that no longer served their purpose and were either abandoned or reformed to handle the challenges that they no longer suitably addressed.  I'm tired of our system being a piggybank for corporate whores that rewards politicking to the detriment of the public.  

I also think that a sort of passive political nihilism is counterproductive, in this instance.   So what if it;s the system we've created?  Is it doing it's job?  I don't think it is. Hell, we aren't even talking about reinventing the wheel here, in refusing to settle for a shitty candidate, just greasing the axle ffs. For all the ruckus about trickle down economics, the dems seem to have swallowed trickle down prosperity and ruin just as willingly. We're going to survive idiots in office, we already do, but they don't actually -seem- to be capable of manifesting positive changes based upon their vacuous campaign promises even when they -aren't- idiots...and their policies are very often idiotic regardless of their own level of intelligence. I've already opined on this in another thread, but if we're unsatisfied with the men and women we wake up with in the morning, maybe we should stop taking them to bed out of desperation?

It's a thought.

[vorlon13]

As for votes not counting,

ask Al Gore about 90,000 votes for Ralph Nader in Florida sometime.

[The Grand Nudger]

That those people voted -didn't- matter to Al, they weren't going to vote for -him-.  Had they all stayed home and not voted the outcome would have been the same.

[vorlon13]

A 49/51% split of their votes apportioned to Bush and Gore respectively and we'd have had a different prez.

[Homeless Nutter]

I don't mean to be overly dramatic, but if next week you guys decide to entrust nuclear launch codes to the bigoted orange f*ck-muppet, I'm accepting Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior...

In a world where this odious blob of rectal puss can be the President of USA, reason has clearly failed - might as well give superstition a whirl.

[The Grand Nudger]

A 49/51% split of their votes apportioned to Bush and Gore respectively and we'd have had a different prez.

..............again, that's not how they were going to vote? I'm not eve sure what the rationale is behind this one, if things were different things would have been different? Hell, I credit those voters for at least -trying- to vote for the candidate they thought best suited. More of that, and we might have had a different president.......?

Some might want to lay Bush at their feet, as if it were -their- fault that other people voted the way they did, or that Gore failed to secure the win against that turd, I think that's a misappropriation of culpability, a subtle way to lay ones own failures on another and thus, rationalize them -as- the failure of others, and not "our boy" or "our party" or "me". That's the same shit the repubs pull when they lose nowadays, only they're a little less subtle and a lot more assholish about it. This, since we've seen the sentiment expressed in thread, is exactly the same nonsense that's pulled by people threatening non-participators with blame if "the other guy" wins..be it trump or hillary. Again, no, nothing to do with me, spike voters are the ones who want to play three card monty with america's future year after year after year.

"But what if the other guys wins!"

-then you have four years to dig up some semblance of a credible candidate, like always.

It's as if someones trying to sell me one of two cars....car a having no wheels, car b having no engine, by loudly proclaiming that I have to pick one, because I have to have a car...and there's only two for sale. If I don;t pick one, bad things™ will happen, my fault ofc, and I won't have a car. To my mind, I won't have a car regardless of which beater I picked, and I don't know why I'd spend the money in the first place. I'd laugh in the salesmans face and walk off the lot...which is pretty much what I've done with this election. He's got my number, he can give me a call when he gets a car with wheels and an engine.

[vorlon13]

What best served the 'enlightened long term best interests' of Ralph Nader ?