RE: The positive case for voting Donald Trump for president.

[Aroura]

Right, he's not political elite, he's just plain elite. The Elie of the elite.

You're just flat out missing the point. Whether Trump actually is the elite or not is irrelevent. In the eyes of most American voters he does not represent them. He represents the millions who feel as though they haven't had a voice for decades.

The parallels between this and Brexit are the same. There is an entire class of people who feel let down by 'the establishment', and whether it's self destructive or not they're going to vote for what will be the biggest possible FUCK YOU to that such establishment.

Like I said, the problem is the progressive left just flat out ignores this, and it's exactly why they'll be sitting there with egg on their face when Trump wins.

Oh no, I get the point.  I am just saying that those Americans are flat out wrong.  

I agree it was stupid for the left to ignore it.  We had an anti-establishment option. However, chances are still high that Trump loses.  And if he wins, he won't tear down the establishment one bit, he won't improve their lives or make more jobs.  He will, however, possibly screw LGBT, and minorities for a long time to come. 

People motivated by hate and fear are indeed more motivated to vote (the case of Brexit), but peoplemany on the left fear trump, so there is motivation there as well.  Also, Brexit had NO GOTV.  In this case, the Democrats have a lot of folks focusing on that.

[A Theist]

Understanding the definition of "consequences" if Hillary's elected should also be a prerequisite for voting.

And SteelCurtain's point was that a negative case against Hilary is NOT a positive case for Trump.

So yeah... understand the definition of a positive case.

With the likely hood of a HilLIARy presidency it's hard to see anything positive remaining in this country because of her basketful of brainwashed crazies who may, unfortunately, put her in the W.H.

On the other hand, with the likely hood of a Trump presidency, one big positive will be the elimination of the unaffordable health care act, (Obamacare), "...the craziest thing in the world." For just my wife and myself, to sign up for Obamacare, our monthly premiums will be as high as our house payments. Who can afford that bullshit? One big positive for Trump, shit canning obamacare.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't know that depriving people of healthcare...who very recently had none and will return to that state...is that much of a pro.  

To shittify the lives of those millions of your fellow citizens, because you don't like the price at the pump?  Maybe you should take that up with the people raking us over the coals for the services, rather than punish the peole who can afford even -less- than you...?

How is that even remotely -american-...let alone a good idea? What happened to the idea that, when times got hard, when things were slim, we buckled up and took it.. we worked harder together, you know.. we the people...indivisible..that sort of thing?

What's this "fuck you got mine" bullshit man.....?

[Edwardo Piet]

And SteelCurtain's point was that a negative case against Hilary is NOT a positive case for Trump.

So yeah... understand the definition of a positive case.

With the likely hood of a HilLIARy presidency it's hard to see anything positive remaining in this country because of her basketful of brainwashed crazies who may, unfortunately, put her in the W.H.

On the other hand, with the likely hood of a Trump presidency, one big positive will be the elimination of the unaffordable health care act, (Obamacare), "...the craziest thing in the world." For just my wife and myself, to sign up for Obamacare, our monthly premiums will be as high as our house payments. Who can afford that bullshit? One big positive for Trump, shit canning obamacare.

More red herrings. So I will simply repeat myself: SteelCurtain's point was that that isn't a positive case FOR Trump. Learn what the definition of a positive case means. This is just more red herrings.

[downbeatplumb]

And SteelCurtain's point was that a negative case against Hilary is NOT a positive case for Trump.

So yeah... understand the definition of a positive case.

With the likely hood of a HilLIARy presidency it's hard to see anything positive remaining in this country because of her basketful of brainwashed crazies who may, unfortunately, put her in the W.H.

On the other hand, with the likely hood of a Trump presidency, one big positive will be the elimination of the unaffordable health care act, (Obamacare), "...the craziest thing in the world." For just my wife and myself, to sign up for Obamacare, our monthly premiums will be as high as our house payments. Who can afford that bullshit? One big positive for Trump, shit canning obamacare.

What you in the US need is a health tax so that healthcare is essentially free to the people who need it. Its how the rest of the civilised world does stuff and it works well. Unfortunately the Republicans wont allow anything that benefits people rather than business, so you ended up with a compromise.

Better than what you had but not as good as it could have been.

[Aegon]

And SteelCurtain's point was that a negative case against Hilary is NOT a positive case for Trump.

So yeah... understand the definition of a positive case.

With the likely hood of a HilLIARy presidency it's hard to see anything positive remaining in this country because of her basketful of brainwashed crazies who may, unfortunately, put her in the W.H.

On the other hand, with the likely hood of a Trump presidency, one big positive will be the elimination of the unaffordable health care act, (Obamacare), "...the craziest thing in the world." For just my wife and myself, to sign up for Obamacare, our monthly premiums will be as high as our house payments. Who can afford that bullshit? One big positive for Trump, shit canning obamacare.

You think Trump's healthcare plan is a positive? My oh my... where to begin?

First of all, I'll concede that the ACA is less than ideal. Why? Because of regressive Republican congressmen and lobbyists operating on behalf of insurance companies. What would be ideal? A healthcare system like the rest of the goddamn world... but eliminating premiums and replacing it with a health tax (which would cost less than premiums pre-ACA, by the way) are too "socialist" for half the backwards assholes in this country. Let's be clear: if Trump succeeds in repealing the Affordable Care Act, that means anywhere from 15 to 20 million Americans will be without health insurance. That is ridiculous. But you'll experience no guilt about that because hey, your premium didn't go up 35 percent, right? (For the record, healthcare premiums increased by nearly 80 percent under Bush.) I think we should improve the ACA, or even replace it with a single-payer system. But under no circumstances should we be replacing it with no viable alternative.

Now, let's move on to Trump's healthcare "plan." Fuck, I don't really even know what it is. Do you know what it is? Maybe you could explain to me how it would work. I hope it's a good one, since the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates repealing the ACA and replacing it with [x] is going to cost us over half a trillion dollars. So whatever the alternative is better make us some quick cash. I've heard that Trump's plan will allow insurance companies to sell over state lines; I'm not sure why that would be a central point to his plan, considering that insurers can already do that in several states and... surprise, surprise, it does nothing to lower costs. As the Center for Health & Economy puts it: "However, even [selling health insurance across state lines] is allowed, various barriers such as the difficulty of building a network and attracting enough customers to create a large enough risk pool make it unappealing to insurers to pursue this option.”

From a personal standpoint, I can't wait to hear what great alternative there is for me when the ACA gets repealed! As somebody with Stage 3 Chronic Kidney Disease, I'm sure private insurance companies will be just jumping for joy at the thought of insuring me! 

[A Theist]

I don't know that depriving people of healthcare...who very recently had none and will return to that state...is that much of a pro.  

To shittify the lives of those millions of your fellow citizens, because you don't like the price at the pump?  Maybe you should take that up with the people raking us over the coals for the services, rather than punish the peole who can afford even -less- than you...?

How is that even remotely -american-...let alone a good idea?  What happened to the idea that, when times got hard, when things were slim, we buckled up and took it.. we worked harder together, you know.. we the people...indivisible..that sort of thing?  

What's this "fuck you got mine" bullshit man.....?

I'm already deprived of healthcare...I can't afford what they offer where I work and I can't afford obamacare....and what about the millions of other low wage working people who are stuck paying the bills for those who don't contribute but are screwed out of having the benefits they pay for? You think it's okay to shittify their lives? You think it's okay to screw over the working people? The ones raking us over the coals are the democrats in Washington. Taking money out of the pockets of 60 hours a week low income wage earners and doling it out to those who don't contribute. How is that fair?

...and how is that even remotely - American -...let alone a good idea to continually screw over the working people? Whatever happened to the idea of personal responsibility, to work and provide for your households? Your way, taking from the working people who can barely make ends meet themselves, and putting it in the pockets of those who leech off everybody else, doesn't create unity.

Get rid of Obamacare. Why should working people continue to pay for something they can't afford to benefit from themselves?

[Aegon]

I don't know that depriving people of healthcare...who very recently had none and will return to that state...is that much of a pro.  

To shittify the lives of those millions of your fellow citizens, because you don't like the price at the pump?  Maybe you should take that up with the people raking us over the coals for the services, rather than punish the peole who can afford even -less- than you...?

How is that even remotely -american-...let alone a good idea?  What happened to the idea that, when times got hard, when things were slim, we buckled up and took it.. we worked harder together, you know.. we the people...indivisible..that sort of thing?  

What's this "fuck you got mine" bullshit man.....?

I'm already deprived of healthcare...I can't afford what they offer where I work and I can't afford obamacare....and what about the millions of other low wage working people who are stuck paying the bills for those who don't contribute but are screwed out of having the benefits they pay for? You think it's okay to shittify their lives? You think it's okay to screw over the working people? The ones raking us over the coals are the democrats in Washington. Taking money out of the pockets of 60 hours a week low income wage earners and doling it out to those who don't contribute. How is that fair?

...and how is that even remotely - American -...let alone a good idea to continually screw over the working people? Whatever happened to the idea of personal responsibility, to work and provide for your households? Your way, taking from the working people who can barely make ends meet themselves, and putting it in the pockets of those who leech off everybody else, doesn't create unity.

Get rid of Obamacare. Why should working people continue to pay for something they can't afford to benefit from themselves?

You're making a great argument for a single-payer healthcare system, my friend. Something that you will never get from Trump...or any conservative POTUS for that matter.

[A Theist]

I'm already deprived of healthcare...I can't afford what they offer where I work and I can't afford obamacare....and what about the millions of other low wage working people who are stuck paying the bills for those who don't contribute but are screwed out of having the benefits they pay for? You think it's okay to shittify their lives? You think it's okay to screw over the working people? The ones raking us over the coals are the democrats in Washington. Taking money out of the pockets of 60 hours a week low income wage earners and doling it out to those who don't contribute. How is that fair?

...and how is that even remotely - American -...let alone a good idea to continually screw over the working people? Whatever happened to the idea of personal responsibility, to work and provide for your households? Your way, taking from the working people who can barely make ends meet themselves, and putting it in the pockets of those who leech off everybody else, doesn't create unity.

Get rid of Obamacare. Why should working people continue to pay for something they can't afford to benefit from themselves?

You're making a great argument for a single-payer healthcare system, my friend.

Just too bad I can't afford that single payer healthcare.

[Napoléon]

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Because people like yourself just cannot stand a differing opinion.

Actually this describes you to a T. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You admitted it yourself which is why I posted about it in the hall of shame:

My bold. It's no better than the theists who take an attack on the stupidity of their religious beliefs as an attack on them as a person. There's loads of people I respect who have some opinions I think are stupid. Taking offence after being told "what I think is stupid" would be extremely pathetic thin-skinned and butthurt of me if I honestly meant it and disingenuous, insincere and resorting to feigning emotion to make an appeal to emotion like a sophist if I didn't honestly mean it. Either way it's worthy of the Hall of Shame for being so shamefully ridiculous and pathetic.

P.S. I think a lot of Napo's opinions are stupid... I should have just called him a cunt instead

The only person who can't stand a difference of opinion here is you. Clearly. And you even admit it. You said yourself here you'd rather I called you a cunt. You say yourself here that you'd rather someone insulted you than your opinions. That is not someone who is capable of debating.  And this is why it's pointless ever arguing with your opinions and less of a waste of time if I simply laugh at them.

This forum never used to be such a circle jerk, but it seems you only ever post to join in on it.

Actually, you just label anyone who disagrees with you as being part of a circle jerk. I've never known anyone be so opinionated and hated it so much when others have opinions too and got all offended when others disagree with them... well, I've known a few people who have been close but you're the worst for it. You're so bad for it that you admit it... and then you seriously try to tell me that I'm the one who can't stand a difference of opinion? You're so full of shit.

It's hilarious that you always label others as butthurt when you're so butthurt you get more offended by a difference of opinion than being called a cunt. I can't disagree with you without hurting your fragile little ego because you can't stand it when people think your opinions are stupid. The truth hurts right? They are fucking stupid. That is me attacking your opinions, not you... but you wonder why I resort to laughing at you when you admit yourself that you're going to take it more personally whenever someone disagrees with or laughs at your opinions than when they insult or laugh at you anyways?

---

#triggered

Considering how deeply you want to go bashing me in the above, I think it pretty obvious who has the vendetta. Who takes it personal.

For starters, you're misrepresenting the fuck out of shit I've said historically. Don't fucking sit there and tell me and everyone else here about all this shit I've supposedly admitted to when I've said no such thing. I didn't peg you as a dishonest liar who would attempt to smear someone in such a way. The context is there on all of my previous posts, if you want to take a quote of something I said previously and twist all context to it that's up to you, but to then call me the asshole in this situation when you're clearly the one with the problem is a fucking joke. You're the one who bashes every differing opinion I post. You're the one who has posted my shit in the hall of shame. You're the one instigating this bullshit now and you're the one with the fucking problem dude.

I have openly admitted to being an asshole on this forum yeah. I've admitted to being rude to people straight off the bat sometimes when it probably isn't necessary. But one thing I think I always am is honest about it, if I ever make a mistake I'm usually the first to admit I'm wrong. I think my reputation on this forum is testament to that to be perfectly fair. Whenever I say there's a circle jerk here or that this forum is full of people with the same opinion, that's because for 95% of the posts it's fucking true. How many posts do we get a day with the same opinion? I don't resort to using this every time someone says something to contend my own opinions, I certainly wouldn't if they used reasoning to back up their viewpoints, but often times they don't bother, like you didn't bother in this very thread. Hence the comments about this being a circle jerk.

Oh, and if ridiculing someone's comments with no reasoning given, is not an insult, neither is calling them a hypocrite and backing it up with the reason, an insult.