Friends Across the Pond: Why You Should Not Give Up On America

[brewer]

But it’s obvious that the electoral college, whoever they are, is made up of the old boys club. I do hope that changes sooner than later.

It is not an old boys club. It changes every election. 

http://www.historycentral.com/elections/...gewhy.html

As a hick from land locked NE I like the electoral college system. It helps to level the playing field for less populous states. We will never have the population of a coastal state.

[abaris]

As a hick from land locked NE I like the electoral college system. It helps to level the playing field for less populous states. We will never have the population of a coastal state.

Don't you consider yourself as one country? I mean, we also have a federal system with 9 different states having their own governments. But the popular votes are counted towards an overall reasult. State elections are held on a different day in different years. They don't follow the same cycles as the federal elections. Pretty much the same system they have in Germany.

[brewer]

As a hick from land locked NE I like the electoral college system. It helps to level the playing field for less populous states. We will never have the population of a coastal state.

Don't you consider yourself as one country? I mean, we also have a federal system with 9 different states having their own governments. But the popular votes are counted towards an overall reasult. State elections are held on a different day in different years. They don't follow the same cycles as the federal elections. Pretty much the same system they have in Germany.

Did you read the link? Electoral college has nothing to do with state elections. The only problem with the electoral college is the winner take all states. NE is not in that category. 

Look at it as similar to the House and Senate. Each state gets 2 senators, each state gets house reps based on population. Senators for CA = 2, NE = 2.
House Reps for CA = 53, NE = 3. It works the same for the electoral college.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_...ed_States)

[Minimalist]

Yeah - that's what we're afraid of.

I don't respond to half-assed comments except to point out what they are.

Go fuck yourself.  I'm in no mood for bullshit from a lightweight like you.

[abaris]

Did you read the link? Electoral college has nothing to do with state elections. The only problem with the electoral college is the winner take all states. NE is not in that category. 

Yeah, and that's the problem. Not the electoral college but a different system for different states. Hence my question of do you not consider yourself to be one country. At least as far federal elections are concerned.

[brewer]

Did you read the link? Electoral college has nothing to do with state elections. The only problem with the electoral college is the winner take all states. NE is not in that category. 

Yeah, and that's the problem. Not the electoral college but a different system for different states. Hence my question of do you not consider yourself to be one country. At least as far federal elections are concerned.

Yep, all one country but with independent states that can choose the best answer for their population. If people in those states don't like the "winner take all" electoral college system in their state and want to make it closer to a popular vote, more representative of their votes, then get off their butts and change it.

[Lucanus]

https://youtu.be/7wC42HgLA4k

https://youtu.be/zcZTTB10_Vo

It's beyond me how anyone could think the electoral college would be a good idea

[I_am_not_mafia]

OK here are some reasons for not giving up on America.

First: Two years.

Things will get really shit but it's still only two years until the mid term elections. Trump has promised the moon and he won't be able to deliver. The idea of getting Mexico to pay for a wall is ludicrous. The idea that a wall would even solve the non-problems that he is talking about is ludicrous. People will have their rights and benefits taken away from them. Every political action costs yet he won't be able to garner any new supporters. Two years is long enough to show half your population that they were wrong and to make them realise just what they voted for. Then you have two years of nothing happening, sure nothing getting better but also nothing getting worse. Maybe it will be bad enough that America will finally move away from its downward spiral. My theory is that the US has always dabbled with fascism because the checks and balances haven't allowed it to fully explore why it's a bad idea. Two years is long enough to let it find out. It's true that people generally don't appreciate what they have until it is gone. People will soon start appreciating what they had.


Second: To be a true demagogue requires real skill.

Both Trump and Pence are largely incompetent. There have been many fascist movements in Europe and only Franco, Mussolini and Hitler actually made it to power and stayed there for any length of time. Yes Trump has made it to power, but that's only the beginning. You need to have a mastery of Machiavellian scheming in order to actually do anything. Can you imagine Trump and Pence playing chess? Trump: "Why can't my king move more than one square at a time? The game is rigged against me" Pence: "My Bishop should be able to move sideways because it is imbued with the power of the Holy Spirit"


Third: Trump, Pence and all Republican politicians are rich and privileged

The real dictators of the world have generally worked their way from the ground up. They have tenacity and drive. This is why dictatorships never last longer than three generations. The sons and grandsons of dictators expect power without realising that they have to work at it. Trump is the ultimate spoilt kid and probably hasn't ever worked hard in his life. He most certainly hasn't made any sacrifices.



Fourth: Regardless of whatever system or laws are in place, people ultimately have the power

A government can only function if the people allow it. No government can exist on its own. Today people power can be stronger and more informed than ever because of social media.


Fifth: You are not alone

The rest of the world is with you against Trump. There is so much history out there, so much experience and knowledge to draw upon. This is all new for you Americans, but you have experienced friends out there willing to help out however they can.

[GrandizerII]

Yeah, and that's the problem. Not the electoral college but a different system for different states. Hence my question of do you not consider yourself to be one country. At least as far federal elections are concerned.

Yep, all one country but with independent states that can choose the best answer for their population. If people in those states don't like the "winner take all" electoral college system in their state and want to make it closer to a popular vote, more representative of their votes, then get off their butts and change it.

So much for democracy.

[abaris]

The rest of the world is with you against Trump.

Is it? Some of our very own countries may fall as early as next year. In my country, according to polls, the extreme right already is the strongest party, getting a third of the popular vote. If the unloved coalition between the social democrats and the conservatives breaks, which is highly likely, the conservatives will jump at the chance to form a right/right government. They did it before, in 2000. That would be Orban on speed.