Christmas Traditions and Biblical Contradictions with Reality

[Mystical]

So, it's Christmas. Yay! It's always been my favorite holiday since I was little, there's just something about the beauty of a Christmas tree lit up that I adore! I love how the darkness is lit all throughout my home state of Colorado. Coloradans know how to do Christmas! So, today I started up my holiday cheer with some Trans Siberia Orchestra, Carol of the Bells! I loved that movie Home Alone, and that orchestra and that movie come hand in hand with several other Christmas time references that just make this time of year special for me.

But my mom just popped off randomly, "Can you just.. turn that off?" I asked why. She said, "You're just blowing my mind right now, it's too much."

Curious, I asked her why I was blowing her mind and she said, "Because that's a song about Christ and you're an atheist!"

I.. didn't even know what to say. After a bit, I pulled my jaw back up and said, "So what?"

We went through this whole thing of how she's been wondering what songs she could play around me and whatnot now that I'm an atheist (I was raised, a Christian from birth). I simply replied, "Whatever makes you happy".

So I turned back on the feed and kept listening to Christmas music! Annnndddd she popped off again during one of my personal favorites, "Little Drummer Boy" by saying, "You know that's about three wise men who traveled for years to find Jesus right?" And I was like, uh, why are we talking about this right now??? It's not like I haven't been told that by you since birth!

Well, anyways she kinda ruined my holiday cheer.

So I thought I'd take a look into these "three wise men". And it turns out, it doesn't say that at all? It calls whomever came, "Magi" which were well known to be astrologer/astromers (which was considered a science at the time), and rather than Kings themselves, they served Kings. The original wording in the bible states that they found Mary with the child not necessarily in a barn but rather the same word used for a house, and it may not have even been at the time of his birth! Most likely they were in the back room that families had where they kept their prized animals--which are also used as makeshift guest rooms. Apparently, Josephs family might not have been too keen on Mary's infidelity and made them sleep in the Donkey Suite. xD Oh, if you're wondering when the Magi found Jesus, according to the bible it's far later than his birth. So the birth of Jesus tale is just that.. a Tale.

Christians if you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe your own Christian historians?

http://www.bible.ca/D-Xmas-story.htm

---

MYTH #5: They spent the night in a separate building like a barn where the animals were kept.
TRUTH: There was no room on the upper floor of the house so they spent the night on the main floor of the house where the animals were kept inside the house. Most ancient Jewish houses had a common area on the main floor, including a manger where animals ate and slept at night, and an upper room where everyone slept. It is possible that there was a separate barn, but this would often be attached to the house directly.
MYTH #6: There were three wise men.
TRUTH: There were three gifts, gold frankincense and myrrh. There may have been 10 wise men, we don’t know, but each of them likely brought some gold frankincense and myrrh. Since these were common currency items of value, each wise man, regardless of the actual number, brought a little of all three.
MYTH #7: The star of Bethlehem shone over the manger the night Jesus was born.
TRUTH: The wise men did not come to Jerusalem until after Mary had purified on day 33 after the birth of Jesus. It was at that point the star began to move slowly ahead of the wise men till it hovered over the place Jesus was located. This means that the star was not hovering over Jesus the night he was born. The star shone over a house, not a barn or an inn. "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother" (Matthew 2:11). It is never called "the star of Bethlehem", simply, "His star". The shepherds were directed by an angel (not a star) to the manger of Jesus the night he was born. The star led the "wise men from the east", who traveled at least 700 km from the Persian or Babylonian area, to the house of Joseph and Mary. This trip would take at least 30 days after the birth of Jesus when you average 25 km per day travel time. After Jesus had been circumcised on the 8th day in the temple, and Mary performed her purification on the 33rd day, Jesus may have been taken to Joseph's home in Nazareth and this is where the star led the wise men: “When they had performed everything according to the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city of Nazareth.” (Luke 2:39). The star, therefore, might have shone over Nazareth, not Bethlehem. The flight to Egypt did not happen until after Mary's purification on the 33rd day. Only after this did the Magi arrive in Jerusalem. They were directed to Bethlehem, not by the star, but because Jewish authorities quoted Micah 5:2. However, the redirection of the Magi to an alternate return route coupled with the same hour of the night urgent departure, both lend weight to the star leading the Magi to the same house Jesus was born.
MYTH #8: The wise men arrived the night Jesus was born in a manger.
TRUTH: The shepherds came to the manger (Luke 2:8-10), but not the wise men came to Joseph's house. In fact, Herod orders the slaughter of the babies two years of age and younger. This means that the child would be well under two years old, in order that no error could be made in killing Jesus, but it also indicates that Jesus was older than a newborn.

[/quote]

---

Look up what I'm saying if you want, I don't mind a good critique!  I like to both learn and share knowledge.

Here's something interesting in the headlines.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...131518.htm

Camels are mentioned as pack animals in the biblical stories of Abraham, Joseph, and Jacob. But archaeologists have shown that camels were not domesticated in the Land of Israel until centuries after the Age of the Patriarchs (2000-1500 BCE). In addition to challenging the Bible's historicity, this anachronism is direct proof that the text was compiled well after the events it describes.

Now Dr. Erez Ben-Yosef and Dr. Lidar Sapir-Hen of Tel Aviv University's Department of Archaeology and Near Eastern Cultures have used radiocarbon dating to pinpoint the moment when domesticated camels arrived in the southern Levant, pushing the estimate from the 12th to the 9th century BCE. The findings, published recently in the journal Tel Aviv, further emphasize the disagreements between Biblical texts and verifiable history, and define a turning point in Israel's engagement with the rest of the world.

"The introduction of the camel to our region was a very important economic and social development," said Dr. Ben-Yosef. "By analyzing archaeological evidence from the copper production sites of the Aravah Valley, we were able to estimate the date of this event in terms of decades rather than centuries."

Speaking of Camels, take a look at this find!

Giant Camel Fossil Found in Canadian Arctic


Over the course of three expeditions, which began in 2006, researchers from the Canadian Museum of Nature collected 30 fragments of fossilised leg bone from Ellesmere Island in Canada.

Their size suggested that the animal was about 30% larger that today's camels, measuring about 2.7m from foot to shoulder.

Dr Buckley said: "These biomolecules tell us that it is a direct ancestor of modern camels."
He said the findings provided a new insight into the evolution of this animal.
"It suggests that many of the adaptations that we currently think of, in terms of camels being adapted to warm desert-like environments, could have actually originated through adaptation to quite the opposite extreme... cold, harsh environments," he explained.
The scientists believe that the camel's hump (which stores fat, not water as is sometimes thought) could provide the reserves needed for an Arctic six-month winter.
Their large eyes would have helped them to see in the low light, and their flat feet would have been just as useful for walking on snow as they are on sand. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21673940

Rather funny how my whole day's worth of Christmas journey ended with camels, but hey. I know I've heard other Biblical tale inaccuracies surrounding the birth of Jesus Christ mentioned on this forum, so, let's point them out!

Oh here's another one!

Nazareth, The City That Never Was

The evidence for a 1st century town of Nazareth does not exist – not literary, not archaeologically, and not historically.
http://www.thenazareneway.com/nazarene_or_nazareth.htm

---

Nazarene or Nazareth?
A People Erased from Existence and The City That Never Was
The Disassociation of Jesus from the Holiest of Peoples

For 20 centuries, most of the life of Jesus has been hidden or suppressed, but modern archeological discoveries have now shed new light on his enigmatic life. Archeologists have now proven that the city of Nazareth did not exist until three centuries after his death, and questions long debated in scholarly circles are now coming to the forefront. Armed with ancient sources like the Dead Sea Scrolls, the papyrus books of Nag Hammadi, and the long overlooked writings from the early church, modern scholars and theologians are reconstructing the life and times of Jesus, and what they are finding is very different from the life and teachings we have been "led to believe."

Nazareth, The City That Never Was

The evidence for a 1st century town of Nazareth does not exist – not literary, not archaeologically, and not historically.

Biblical scholars and clergy alike have always had difficulty accepting the possibility that at the time of Jesus there was no city called “Nazareth.” They have always resisted this possibility and sometimes, quite vigorously.
The Encyclopaedia Biblica, a work written by theologians, and perhaps the greatest biblical reference work in the English language, says: "We cannot venture to assert positively that there was a city of Nazareth in Jesus' time." 
Nazareth is not mentioned in any historical records or biblical texts of the time and receives no mention by any contemporary historian. Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Talmud (the Jewish law code), nor in the Apocrypha and it does not appear in any early rabbinic literature.
Nazareth was not included in the list of settlements of the tribes of Zebulon (Joshua 19:10-16) which mentions twelve towns and six villages, and Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus (37AD-100AD), a widely traveled historian who never missed anything and who voluminously describes the region. The name is also missing from the 63 towns of Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.
The first reference to Nazareth is in the New Testament where it can be found 29 different times. However, there is still cause for speculation as to whether or not the city existed at the time of Jesus. It is mentioned only in the Gospels and Acts. These books do refer to Nazareth, but they did not originate at this time, they are later writings. The earlier writings of the NT (Paul etc) mention Jesus 221 times - but never mention Nazareth.

The Essenes, The Nazarenes

At the time of Jesus, there were three major Jewish Sects. The Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Essenes. The Pharisees and the Sadducees were relatively similar in their beliefs and traditions, but the Essenes were radically different and openly opposed the theology, doctrines, and the spiritual integrity of both the Pharisees and the Sadducees.

There are numerous historical, literary and archaeological accounts of the existence of the Essenes, yet the bible is strangely silent about them. We know of their specific geographic locations throughout Egypt and ancient Palestine, we know of their customs and traditions, and we know the details of their deeply rooted spiritual convictions and of their esoteric religious beliefs.

The word Essene is a collective term and is not necessarily a distinctive designation, just as the word Christian encompasses a wide base of institutionalized systems of religious beliefs, attitudes and practices. There are currently over 34,000 separate Christian groups that have been identified throughout the world. Most are independent churches.

At the time of Jesus, there were three distinct Essenian groups that played important roles in his life, and their religious practices and spiritual theology mirror in his teachings. They were:

• The Theraputae of Egypt; where the infant Christ and his family fled during Herods rein. The Essenes of Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls), the strict, celibate monastery of which John the Baptist was a part.The Nazarenes of Mount Carmel, the cooperative family village where Jesus lived and studied.

Josephus and other classic writers tell us of the Essenes and their intense appreciation for the inspired Law of God and that they "strove to be like the angels of heaven." They also opposed slavery, the sacrificing of animals and the eating of flesh. Their highest aim was to become fit temples of the Holy Ghost (1 Cor 6:19), to be healers and perform cures, especially spiritual cures, and to be spiritually qualified as forerunners of the Messiah, the latter being the primary spiritual focus of the Nazarenes of Mount Carmel.

---

[Silver]

[Mystical]

I know I know.. it's not even December yet!

[Pat Mustard]

So, it's Christmas. Yay! It's always been my favorite holiday since I was little, there's just something about the beauty of a Christmas tree lit up that I adore! I love how the darkness is lit all throughout my home state of Colorado. Coloradans know how to do Christmas! So, today I started up my holiday cheer with some Trans Siberia Orchestra, Carol of the Bells! I loved that movie Home Alone, and that orchestra and that movie come hand in hand with several other Christmas time references that just make this time of year special for me.

But my mom just popped off randomly, "Can you just.. turn that off?" I asked why. She said, "You're just blowing my mind right now, it's too much."

Curious, I asked her why I was blowing her mind and she said, "Because that's a song about Christ and you're an atheist!"

I.. didn't even know what to say. After a bit, I pulled my jaw back up and said, "So what?"

We went through this whole thing of how she's been wondering what songs she could play around me and whatnot now that I'm an atheist (I was raised, a Christian from birth). I simply replied, "Whatever makes you happy".

So I turned back on the feed and kept listening to Christmas music! Annnndddd she popped off again during one of my personal favorites, "Little Drummer Boy" by saying, "You know that's about three wise men who traveled for years to find Jesus right?" And I was like, uh, why are we talking about this right now??? It's not like I haven't been told that by you since birth!

Well, anyways she kinda ruined my holiday cheer.

So I thought I'd take a look into these "three wise men". And it turns out, it doesn't say that at all? It calls whomever came, "Magi" which were well known to be astrologer/astromers (which was considered a science at the time), and rather than Kings themselves, they served Kings. The original wording in the bible states that they found Mary with the child not necessarily in a barn but rather the same word used for a house, and it may not have even been at the time of his birth! Most likely they were in the back room that families had where they kept their prized animals--which are also used as makeshift guest rooms. Apparently, Josephs family might not have been too keen on Mary's infidelity and made them sleep in the Donkey Suite. xD Oh, if you're wondering when the Magi found Jesus, according to the bible it's far later than his birth. So the birth of Jesus tale is just that.. a Tale.

Christians if you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe your own Christian historians?

http://www.bible.ca/D-Xmas-story.htm

---

MYTH #5: They spent the night in a separate building like a barn where the animals were kept.
TRUTH: There was no room on the upper floor of the house so they spent the night on the main floor of the house where the animals were kept inside the house. Most ancient Jewish houses had a common area on the main floor, including a manger where animals ate and slept at night, and an upper room where everyone slept. It is possible that there was a separate barn, but this would often be attached to the house directly.
MYTH #6: There were three wise men.
TRUTH: There were three gifts, gold frankincense and myrrh. There may have been 10 wise men, we don’t know, but each of them likely brought some gold frankincense and myrrh. Since these were common currency items of value, each wise man, regardless of the actual number, brought a little of all three.
MYTH #7: The star of Bethlehem shone over the manger the night Jesus was born.
TRUTH: The wise men did not come to Jerusalem until after Mary had purified on day 33 after the birth of Jesus. It was at that point the star began to move slowly ahead of the wise men till it hovered over the place Jesus was located. This means that the star was not hovering over Jesus the night he was born. The star shone over a house, not a barn or an inn. "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother" (Matthew 2:11). It is never called "the star of Bethlehem", simply, "His star". The shepherds were directed by an angel (not a star) to the manger of Jesus the night he was born. The star led the "wise men from the east", who traveled at least 700 km from the Persian or Babylonian area, to the house of Joseph and Mary. This trip would take at least 30 days after the birth of Jesus when you average 25 km per day travel time. After Jesus had been circumcised on the 8th day in the temple, and Mary performed her purification on the 33rd day, Jesus may have been taken to Joseph's home in Nazareth and this is where the star led the wise men: “When they had performed everything according to the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city of Nazareth.” (Luke 2:39). The star, therefore, might have shone over Nazareth, not Bethlehem. The flight to Egypt did not happen until after Mary's purification on the 33rd day. Only after this did the Magi arrive in Jerusalem. They were directed to Bethlehem, not by the star, but because Jewish authorities quoted Micah 5:2. However, the redirection of the Magi to an alternate return route coupled with the same hour of the night urgent departure, both lend weight to the star leading the Magi to the same house Jesus was born.
MYTH #8: The wise men arrived the night Jesus was born in a manger.
TRUTH: The shepherds came to the manger (Luke 2:8-10), but not the wise men came to Joseph's house. In fact, Herod orders the slaughter of the babies two years of age and younger. This means that the child would be well under two years old, in order that no error could be made in killing Jesus, but it also indicates that Jesus was older than a newborn.

---

[Mystical]

Hmmm to make its story cohesive as possible with OT prophecies?

[brewer]

I thought one of the Magi was an entertainer/comedian. He brought mirth. Go ahead, look it up!

[Minimalist]

[Huggy Bear]

---

So, it's Christmas. Yay! It's always been my favorite holiday since I was little, there's just something about the beauty of a Christmas tree lit up that I adore! I love how the darkness is lit all throughout my home state of Colorado. Coloradans know how to do Christmas! So, today I started up my holiday cheer with some Trans Siberia Orchestra, Carol of the Bells! I loved that movie Home Alone, and that orchestra and that movie come hand in hand with several other Christmas time references that just make this time of year special for me.

But my mom just popped off randomly, "Can you just.. turn that off?" I asked why. She said, "You're just blowing my mind right now, it's too much."

Curious, I asked her why I was blowing her mind and she said, "Because that's a song about Christ and you're an atheist!"

I.. didn't even know what to say. After a bit, I pulled my jaw back up and said, "So what?"

We went through this whole thing of how she's been wondering what songs she could play around me and whatnot now that I'm an atheist (I was raised, a Christian from birth). I simply replied, "Whatever makes you happy".

So I turned back on the feed and kept listening to Christmas music! Annnndddd she popped off again during one of my personal favorites, "Little Drummer Boy" by saying, "You know that's about three wise men who traveled for years to find Jesus right?" And I was like, uh, why are we talking about this right now??? It's not like I haven't been told that by you since birth!

Well, anyways she kinda ruined my holiday cheer.

So I thought I'd take a look into these "three wise men". And it turns out, it doesn't say that at all? It calls whomever came, "Magi" which were well known to be astrologer/astromers (which was considered a science at the time), and rather than Kings themselves, they served Kings. The original wording in the bible states that they found Mary with the child not necessarily in a barn but rather the same word used for a house, and it may not have even been at the time of his birth! Most likely they were in the back room that families had where they kept their prized animals--which are also used as makeshift guest rooms. Apparently, Josephs family might not have been too keen on Mary's infidelity and made them sleep in the Donkey Suite. xD Oh, if you're wondering when the Magi found Jesus, according to the bible it's far later than his birth. So the birth of Jesus tale is just that.. a Tale.

Christians if you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe your own Christian historians?

http://www.bible.ca/D-Xmas-story.htm
MYTH #5: They spent the night in a separate building like a barn where the animals were kept.
TRUTH: There was no room on the upper floor of the house so they spent the night on the main floor of the house where the animals were kept inside the house. Most ancient Jewish houses had a common area on the main floor, including a manger where animals ate and slept at night, and an upper room where everyone slept. It is possible that there was a separate barn, but this would often be attached to the house directly.
MYTH #6: There were three wise men.
TRUTH: There were three gifts, gold frankincense and myrrh. There may have been 10 wise men, we don’t know, but each of them likely brought some gold frankincense and myrrh. Since these were common currency items of value, each wise man, regardless of the actual number, brought a little of all three.
MYTH #7: The star of Bethlehem shone over the manger the night Jesus was born.
TRUTH: The wise men did not come to Jerusalem until after Mary had purified on day 33 after the birth of Jesus. It was at that point the star began to move slowly ahead of the wise men till it hovered over the place Jesus was located. This means that the star was not hovering over Jesus the night he was born. The star shone over a house, not a barn or an inn. "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother" (Matthew 2:11). It is never called "the star of Bethlehem", simply, "His star". The shepherds were directed by an angel (not a star) to the manger of Jesus the night he was born. The star led the "wise men from the east", who traveled at least 700 km from the Persian or Babylonian area, to the house of Joseph and Mary. This trip would take at least 30 days after the birth of Jesus when you average 25 km per day travel time. After Jesus had been circumcised on the 8th day in the temple, and Mary performed her purification on the 33rd day, Jesus may have been taken to Joseph's home in Nazareth and this is where the star led the wise men: “When they had performed everything according to the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own city of Nazareth.” (Luke 2:39). The star, therefore, might have shone over Nazareth, not Bethlehem. The flight to Egypt did not happen until after Mary's purification on the 33rd day. Only after this did the Magi arrive in Jerusalem. They were directed to Bethlehem, not by the star, but because Jewish authorities quoted Micah 5:2. However, the redirection of the Magi to an alternate return route coupled with the same hour of the night urgent departure, both lend weight to the star leading the Magi to the same house Jesus was born.
MYTH #8: The wise men arrived the night Jesus was born in a manger.
TRUTH: The shepherds came to the manger (Luke 2:8-10), but not the wise men came to Joseph's house. In fact, Herod orders the slaughter of the babies two years of age and younger. This means that the child would be well under two years old, in order that no error could be made in killing Jesus, but it also indicates that Jesus was older than a newborn.

Look up what I'm saying if you want, I don't mind a good critique!  I like to both learn and share knowledge.

Here's something interesting in the headlines.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...131518.htm

Camels are mentioned as pack animals in the biblical stories of Abraham, Joseph, and Jacob. But archaeologists have shown that camels were not domesticated in the Land of Israel until centuries after the Age of the Patriarchs (2000-1500 BCE). In addition to challenging the Bible's historicity, this anachronism is direct proof that the text was compiled well after the events it describes.

Now Dr. Erez Ben-Yosef and Dr. Lidar Sapir-Hen of Tel Aviv University's Department of Archaeology and Near Eastern Cultures have used radiocarbon dating to pinpoint the moment when domesticated camels arrived in the southern Levant, pushing the estimate from the 12th to the 9th century BCE. The findings, published recently in the journal Tel Aviv, further emphasize the disagreements between Biblical texts and verifiable history, and define a turning point in Israel's engagement with the rest of the world.

"The introduction of the camel to our region was a very important economic and social development," said Dr. Ben-Yosef. "By analyzing archaeological evidence from the copper production sites of the Aravah Valley, we were able to estimate the date of this event in terms of decades rather than centuries."

Speaking of Camels, take a look at this find!

Giant Camel Fossil Found in Canadian Arctic


Over the course of three expeditions, which began in 2006, researchers from the Canadian Museum of Nature collected 30 fragments of fossilised leg bone from Ellesmere Island in Canada.

Their size suggested that the animal was about 30% larger that today's camels, measuring about 2.7m from foot to shoulder.

Dr Buckley said: "These biomolecules tell us that it is a direct ancestor of modern camels."
He said the findings provided a new insight into the evolution of this animal.
"It suggests that many of the adaptations that we currently think of, in terms of camels being adapted to warm desert-like environments, could have actually originated through adaptation to quite the opposite extreme... cold, harsh environments," he explained.
The scientists believe that the camel's hump (which stores fat, not water as is sometimes thought) could provide the reserves needed for an Arctic six-month winter.
Their large eyes would have helped them to see in the low light, and their flat feet would have been just as useful for walking on snow as they are on sand. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21673940

Rather funny how my whole day's worth of Christmas journey ended with camels, but hey. I know I've heard other Biblical tale inaccuracies surrounding the birth of Jesus Christ mentioned on this forum, so, let's point them out!

Oh here's another one!

Nazareth, The City That Never Was

The evidence for a 1st century town of Nazareth does not exist – not literary, not archaeologically, and not historically.
http://www.thenazareneway.com/nazarene_or_nazareth.htm

Nazarene or Nazareth?
 A People Erased from Existence and The City That Never Was
 The Disassociation of Jesus from the Holiest of Peoples

For 20 centuries, most of the life of Jesus has been hidden or suppressed, but modern archeological discoveries have now shed new light on his enigmatic life. Archeologists have now proven that the city of Nazareth did not exist until three centuries after his death, and questions long debated in scholarly circles are now coming to the forefront. Armed with ancient sources like the Dead Sea Scrolls, the papyrus books of Nag Hammadi, and the long overlooked writings from the early church, modern scholars and theologians are reconstructing the life and times of Jesus, and what they are finding is very different from the life and teachings we have been "led to believe."

Nazareth, The City That Never Was

The evidence for a 1st century town of Nazareth does not exist – not literary, not archaeologically, and not historically.

Biblical scholars and clergy alike have always had difficulty accepting the possibility that at the time of Jesus there was no city called “Nazareth.” They have always resisted this possibility and sometimes, quite vigorously.
The Encyclopaedia Biblica, a work written by theologians, and perhaps the greatest biblical reference work in the English language, says: "We cannot venture to assert positively that there was a city of Nazareth in Jesus' time."
Nazareth is not mentioned in any historical records or biblical texts of the time and receives no mention by any contemporary historian. Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the Talmud (the Jewish law code), nor in the Apocrypha and it does not appear in any early rabbinic literature.
Nazareth was not included in the list of settlements of the tribes of Zebulon (Joshua 19:10-16) which mentions twelve towns and six villages, and Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus (37AD-100AD), a widely traveled historian who never missed anything and who voluminously describes the region. The name is also missing from the 63 towns of Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.
The first reference to Nazareth is in the New Testament where it can be found 29 different times. However, there is still cause for speculation as to whether or not the city existed at the time of Jesus. It is mentioned only in the Gospels and Acts. These books do refer to Nazareth, but they did not originate at this time, they are later writings. The earlier writings of the NT (Paul etc) mention Jesus 221 times - but never mention Nazareth.

The Essenes, The Nazarenes

At the time of Jesus, there were three major Jewish Sects. The Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Essenes. The Pharisees and the Sadducees were relatively similar in their beliefs and traditions, but the Essenes were radically different and openly opposed the theology, doctrines, and the spiritual integrity of both the Pharisees and the Sadducees.

There are numerous historical, literary and archaeological accounts of the existence of the Essenes, yet the bible is strangely silent about them. We know of their specific geographic locations throughout Egypt and ancient Palestine, we know of their customs and traditions, and we know the details of their deeply rooted spiritual convictions and of their esoteric religious beliefs.

The word Essene is a collective term and is not necessarily a distinctive designation, just as the word Christian encompasses a wide base of institutionalized systems of religious beliefs, attitudes and practices. There are currently over 34,000 separate Christian groups that have been identified throughout the world. Most are independent churches.

At the time of Jesus, there were three distinct Essenian groups that played important roles in his life, and their religious practices and spiritual theology mirror in his teachings. They were:

• The Theraputae of Egypt; where the infant Christ and his family fled during Herods rein. The Essenes of Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls), the strict, celibate monastery of which John the Baptist was a part.The Nazarenes of Mount Carmel, the cooperative family village where Jesus lived and studied.

Josephus and other classic writers tell us of the Essenes and their intense appreciation for the inspired Law of God and that they "strove to be like the angels of heaven." They also opposed slavery, the sacrificing of animals and the eating of flesh. Their highest aim was to become fit temples of the Holy Ghost (1 Cor 6:19), to be healers and perform cures, especially spiritual cures, and to be spiritually qualified as forerunners of the Messiah, the latter being the primary spiritual focus of the Nazarenes of Mount Carmel.

---

First of all, most Christians know,or should know that Christmas is a pagan tradition...

After Claudius expelled the Jews (Bear in mind that the early Christians were Jews) from Rome, the newly converted Roman Christians began adding their pagan traditions to Christianity.

For example, Jesus was not born on December 25, as you may know; this was around the time Pagan Rome celebrated Saturnalia.

Also you are correct about Jesus being around 2 years old when the wise men showed up.

As far as the Nazarene's, they are first mentioned in the book of numbers, the most notable Nazarite besides Jesus is Samson (which is why he was forbidden to cut his hair).

---

Numbers 6

6 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the Lord:

3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

5 All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the Lord, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.

6 All the days that he separateth himself unto the Lord he shall come at no dead body.

7 He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister, when they die: because the consecration of his God is upon his head.

8 All the days of his separation he is holy unto the Lord.

9 And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it.

10 And on the eighth day he shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons, to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:

11 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead, and shall hallow his head that same day.

12 And he shall consecrate unto the Lord the days of his separation, and shall bring a lamb of the first year for a trespass offering: but the days that were before shall be lost, because his separation was defiled.

13 And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:

14 And he shall offer his offering unto the Lord, one he lamb of the first year without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish for a sin offering, and one ram without blemish for peace offerings,

15 And a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings.

16 And the priest shall bring them before the Lord, and shall offer his sin offering, and his burnt offering:

17 And he shall offer the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord, with the basket of unleavened bread: the priest shall offer also his meat offering, and his drink offering.

18 And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings.

19 And the priest shall take the sodden shoulder of the ram, and one unleavened cake out of the basket, and one unleavened wafer, and shall put them upon the hands of the Nazarite, after the hair of his separation is shaven:

20 And the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the Lord: this is holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine.

21 This is the law of the Nazarite who hath vowed, and of his offering unto the Lord for his separation, beside that that his hand shall get: according to the vow which he vowed, so he must do after the law of his separation.

---

The term 'Nazarite' is given because of a vow one takes, not because he hails from a city named "Nazareth".

[Mystical]

Thanks Huggy, I think this is a good thread to set things straight for believers and nonbelievers alike! You'd be surprised how little Christians give a fuck about actually reading the Bible. Of course, I could say the same about other religions with regards to mental laziness in their reasoning for beliefs--or non beliefs! However since Christianity chose me, I choose it to debunk this holiday. ^__^

Minimalist, I see you lurkin. Care to throw in some of your 'old wise man' knowledge and links?

[Minimalist]

The term 'Nazarite' is given because of a vow one takes, not because he hails from a city named "Nazareth".

And they still exist, Hugs.


http://www.nazarite.net/home.html

The Nazarite Site was built to bring believers to the truth by exposing the twisted man-made doctrines of modern-day Churchianity known as the Great Apostasy in Scripture. Many people, including myself have fallen victim to these false doctrines taught by the Christian Churches. The Sunday observant Christian Churches practice and teach doctrines that are not Scriptural and in most cases are deeply rooted in pagan traditions, especially that which originated in pagan sun-worship.

Of course, they are nuts too but they are still out there.