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Democracy is fucked up
#31
RE: Democracy is fucked up
(January 29, 2017 at 8:21 pm)Zenith Wrote:
(January 23, 2017 at 9:40 am)Tonus Wrote: How smart can they be if they're leaving their fate in the hands of a small group of gullible people, whose influence they could negate by taking the simple action of voting?

It's complicated. And, I believe, most people who don't go to vote - even smart ones - don't feel like their fate lies in the hands of the people who go to vote.

I think that this happens when people focus on one factor (electing a President) and not on other factors that can have a greater impact (electing both local and national representatives). The number of people who come out to vote in 2018 will be very telling. It's potentially a much more impactful election, but turnout and coverage are just a small fraction of what we get during the Presidential election cycle.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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#32
RE: Democracy is fucked up
(January 29, 2017 at 8:31 pm)dyresand Wrote: The US isn't a democratic country it functions as a Oligarchy we have been for a long time.

My country (especially, old political parties) is ruled more like the Feudal system. The Chairman of the political party is like a Lord where mayors, county councilors and  so on are like knights (or, lower lords). This means, they all fight for the interests of the "party", which means for the interests of the chairman. If somebody in the political party disagrees with what a guy higher in the hierarchy is doing, he's kicked out.

Villages and small towns? Well, people there vote with whom the mayor tells them to. There are people even as idiots as to believe that the mayor can increase their pension - so yes, the mayors can promise anything for them to go to vote and vote with the "right" guys. Most people don't understand what their vote actually means and that that it actually has an influence on the future of the country. To them, they are just doing their duty: voting with whom they're told to. The mayor calls for a protest? If it's the mayor, they must go and hold whatever banners, they don't even have to read what's on them.

(January 30, 2017 at 11:05 am)Tonus Wrote:
(January 29, 2017 at 8:21 pm)Zenith Wrote: It's complicated. And, I believe, most people who don't go to vote - even smart ones - don't feel like their fate lies in the hands of the people who go to vote.

I think that this happens when people focus on one factor (electing a President) and not on other factors that can have a greater impact (electing both local and national representatives).  The number of people who come out to vote in 2018 will be very telling.  It's potentially a much more impactful election, but turnout and coverage are just a small fraction of what we get during the Presidential election cycle.

I disagree. I look at my own country, where things are now pretty screwed up. We elected a good man for President (way better than what USA has, if you ask me). For a year we had a great prime minister (who actually knew what he was doing).

But then, we had elections for parliament. The Social Democrats didn't make any grave blunder during campaign, nor during elections. Result: 60% of the people didn't go to vote and the Social Democrats alone won ~45% of the votes. The Social Democrats made political alliances gaining ~60% of the parliament. They issued a law to allow them to steal money from the state. The chairman believed himself a dictator. The attitude of the Social Democrats has ever since been "What the fuck is wrong with the protesters? We WON, we can do whatever the FUCK we want! The democratical power of the elections gave us the power. What's with the scum on the streets telling us that we can't do what we want?" And of course, there are also a lot of idiots who take to the streets showing support for the Social Democrats.

I guess, in our case, many people did not feel any threat at the elections. And when you vote for the parliament, you vote for an abstract entity called "political party", not for an individual. I guess people thought that things were okay, that regardless of the outcome, it's a democracy and the political party will stand accountable to the citizens.

Now it feels like we've got Putin ruling the both the parliament and the government. And I know, I've seen it for way too many times. After 4 years, if things will be calm again, people will forget, and this same poltiical party will have the same chances of winning as it had now.
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