So Drumpfucks.... Is It Worth A War?

[Crossless2.0]

Well the FBI said Hilary is too stupid to prosecute so yeah...

The James Comey said Hilary is a retard and people were singing and dancing.

So is this what we have to look forward to? Every time there is a legitimate concern about what Trump and his administration might do on the international stage, we'll get some screed about Hillary? Judging by what I see in the comments sections of virtually every news feed I ever read about Trump and the transition, I guess so.

Man, that takes me back to the day when we were all talking about . . . oh, every other candidate who ever lost a general election. Fuck it. When it comes to Russia, I blame Dewey. Mondale can take the hit on China when that goes south. And Syria? I can't decide whether to excoriate Dukakis, Goldwater, or Romney.

[abaris]

Money is not the always the decider of who wins the war yeah if America had to take on both China and Russia they would likely win but I doubt it would be an easy victory

Nobody would win a war like that. Even if no nukes were fired, the global economy would be in tatters for decades to come. And that kind of Fallout would certainly reach the USA in a way that makes the Great Depression look like a sunday picknick. Far as I know the Chinese can make or break the Dollar. That at least should give everyone pause.

[Crossless2.0]

China would never need to fire a shot. They could bring us to our knees by dumping all of the U.S. debt they've purchased. Of course, they'd be hurt badly by such a move (everyone would), but if the shit ever hit the fan they just might decide they could withstand the damage better than us. It's an ace up their sleeve that should give pause to any U.S. administration.

Think of it as the economic equivalent of MAD.

[The Grand Nudger]

No, they couldn't.  We've been buying our debts back from everyone, quietly, for the last 8 years.  China owns 7% (we own 67.5%, for reference) of our debt, and plenty of people would gladly buy it.

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LOL, -we'd- buy it if they were "dumping" it, we've already made the offer, China holds it because they need it.

[Brian37]

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/trump-no...a-islands/

Trump nominee Tillerson says China should be denied access to South China sea islands

The Navy pretty much got left out of Bush's escapades.  They'd be front and center on this one.

Drumpfucks don't seem to understand that NOBODY wins if a nuclear war happens. No matter if we shoot them off first, or they do, both will fire at the other. That will kill millions if not billions globally, and if anyone were to survive, the food supplies would be poisoned, the electrical grids would be destroyed and we'd all end up at the point of killing our neighbors to compete for food and survival.

DRUMPFUCKS don't understand the concept of mutual destruction, and Trump is too fucking stupid himself to understand that. JFK and Reagan DID understand that.

[Crossless2.0]

No, they couldn't.  We've been buying our debts back from everyone, quietly, for the last 8 years.  China owns 7% (we own 67.5%, for reference) of our debt, and plenty of people would gladly buy it.

---

LOL, -we'd- buy it if they were "dumping" it, we've already made the offer, China holds it because they need it.

Your point is well taken.

[Anomalocaris]

China would never need to fire a shot. They could bring us to our knees by dumping all of the U.S. debt they've purchased. Of course, they'd be hurt badly by such a move (everyone would), but if the shit ever hit the fan they just might decide they could withstand the damage better than us. It's an ace up their sleeve that should give pause to any U.S. administration.

Think of it as the economic equivalent of MAD.

Where china holds us hostage is in the standard of living of the board class of Americans who did not partake in the income growth of this country since 1980.   This is an point trumpomatic morons failed to understand.  For bulk of trumpomatic Americans, their real income has been stagnating for far longer than China has been exporting shit to the US.  The reason why they have not rebelled against piss trickling down economics of the republicans is because China has been keeping the demand for our bonds high for much of last 15 years, which enabled trumpomatic losers to feel they weren't being squeezed by the shift of wealth from them to the billionaires and republicans because they can borrow money on the cheap to finance lifestyle their own productivity and share of national income can't support, and because cheap shit that china exports to us makes them feel their stagnating incomes still allows them to buy more shit, despite the fact that they never partook in any of the economic growth this country experienced since 1990.

It is only because good economic relationship with China that trumpomatic morons support trump and his China bashing.  If relationship with China really sours for extended period of time, eventually the trumpomatic morons will find there is no longer cheap money, no longer cheap shit, and they actually have to limit their standard of living by their declining share of total US wealth.  Then trumpomatic morons will be lynching trump and his class, rather than voting for trump to "drain the swamp".

If we want to declare war on china, and not suffer an internal revolution, we need to do about 30 years of work to realign expectation of education and skill of a board class of Americans, and put the fear of being lynched into billionaires, so that there can be internally generated and sustained real income growth for broad segments.  Socialism is not a dirty word.  The threat of socialism is the only gun pointed at the temple of capitalists to keep them minimally honest and willing to continence income growth in broader society.

[Brian37]

China would never need to fire a shot. They could bring us to our knees by dumping all of the U.S. debt they've purchased. Of course, they'd be hurt badly by such a move (everyone would), but if the shit ever hit the fan they just might decide they could withstand the damage better than us. It's an ace up their sleeve that should give pause to any U.S. administration.

Think of it as the economic equivalent of MAD.

I think the idea of global dept is outdated. I think that is simply a product of the global rich convincing everyone friend and foe alike that it is more important than investing in global stability. It allows friend and foe alike to treat the global market as a giant casino.

[Crossless2.0]

China would never need to fire a shot. They could bring us to our knees by dumping all of the U.S. debt they've purchased. Of course, they'd be hurt badly by such a move (everyone would), but if the shit ever hit the fan they just might decide they could withstand the damage better than us. It's an ace up their sleeve that should give pause to any U.S. administration.

Think of it as the economic equivalent of MAD.

Where china holds us hostage is in the standard of living of the board class of Americans who did not partake in the income growth of this country since 1980.   This is an point trumpomatic morons failed to understand.  For bulk of trumpomatic Americans, their real income has been stagnating for far longer than China has been exporting shit to the US.  The reason why they have not rebelled against piss trickling down economics of the republicans is because China has been keeping the demand for our bonds high for much of last 15 years, which enabled trumpomatic losers to feel they weren't being squeezed by billionaires and republicans because they can borrow money to finance lifestyle their own productivity can't support, and because cheap shit that china exports to us makes them feel their stagnating incomes still allows them to buy more shit, despite the fact that they never partook in any of the economic growth this country experienced since 1990.

It is only because good economic relationship with China that trumpomatic morons support trump and his China bashing.  If relationship with China really sours for extended period of time, eventually the trumpomatic morons will find there is no longer cheap money, no longer cheap shit, and they actually have to limit their standard of living by their declining share of total US wealth.  Then trumpomatic morons will be lynching trump and his class, rather than voting for trump to "drain the swamp".

Excellent points, all.

I'm only skeptical about the part I bolded -- not that people won't feel the squeeze and have to limit their standard of living but that they will connect the dots and rise up against the people who have been playing them all this time. I've lost almost every shred of faith I used to have that a large enough number of voters can see through the political smoke screen. When things get bad enough, I'd say it's about 50/50 between a genuine populist uprising against the plutocratic system we actually have and the birth of genuine U.S. fascism.

Sheep will always look for a shepherd.

[Anomalocaris]

Where china holds us hostage is in the standard of living of the board class of Americans who did not partake in the income growth of this country since 1980.   This is an point trumpomatic morons failed to understand.  For bulk of trumpomatic Americans, their real income has been stagnating for far longer than China has been exporting shit to the US.  The reason why they have not rebelled against piss trickling down economics of the republicans is because China has been keeping the demand for our bonds high for much of last 15 years, which enabled trumpomatic losers to feel they weren't being squeezed by billionaires and republicans because they can borrow money to finance lifestyle their own productivity can't support, and because cheap shit that china exports to us makes them feel their stagnating incomes still allows them to buy more shit, despite the fact that they never partook in any of the economic growth this country experienced since 1990.

It is only because good economic relationship with China that trumpomatic morons support trump and his China bashing.  If relationship with China really sours for extended period of time, eventually the trumpomatic morons will find there is no longer cheap money, no longer cheap shit, and they actually have to limit their standard of living by their declining share of total US wealth.  Then trumpomatic morons will be lynching trump and his class, rather than voting for trump to "drain the swamp".

Excellent points, all.

I'm only skeptical about the part I bolded -- not that people won't feel the squeeze and have to limit their standard of living but that they will connect the dots and rise up against the people who have been playing them all this time. I've lost almost every shred of faith I used to have that a large enough number of voters can see through the political smoke screen. When things get bad enough, I'd say it's about 50/50 between a genuine populist uprising against the plutocratic system we actually have and the birth of genuine U.S. fascism.

Sheep will always look for a shepherd.

That depends which side has more motivated, ruthless, focused and pragmatic Shepards.  So far the right has been pragmatic and highly focused,  while the center and the left has lived in the airy delusion that Americans are basically not too indecent, which is the ultimate reason why Clinton thought so well of her chances and still lost.  However, focus, ruthlessness and pragmatism are bred from adversity, while delusions and complacency follows from accustomed success.

So the success of liberalism from 1930 to 1980, and in some ways to now, bred the focus and ruthlessness of the reactionary right, as well as the delusion and complacency of the center. So too the antics of the right since 1992 will reverse the balance of focus and pragmatism.  The question is how long will it take.