Serious Problems with Atheism

[AceBoogie]

Yeah, science is obsessed with things you can actually measure and test. How naive.

ROFL

This whole "science can't explain everything" attitude kills me. "Science can't explain everything, therefore god" - is basically the argument.

I suppose this really speaks to the whole supernatural vs. natural worldview thing. Nature encompasses all that exists.. so if something is beyond nature, that means it is fantasy.

Religious folks will speak about god being "outside of our dimension" as if they have total understanding of what they're saying and yet will, in the same breath, tell you that carbon dating is bullshit. Jesus fucking Christ these people drive me up a wall sometimes.

[Cyberman]

The point I was making, Pulse, is that all you are doing is poking holes in things that are inconvenient for your case and hoping we won't notice that your case doesn't become validated by default.

Let's forget about what you see as problems with evolution and quote mines from authority figures etc. Let's take for granted that you have destroyed all of that. Present the evidence for your case, not against someone else's.

[Angrboda]

As a Christian I have experienced that no Atheist on earth has any convincing arguments to these most basic questions which I believe only the Christian religion can answer.

People around the world find themselves enmeshed in different religions. Most testify that their religious experiences are a source of meaning in their life. (Why else would they subscribe to their religion?) From the Christian and his Jesus, to the Brahma of the Hindu, to the 'Dao' of the Taoist, to the "li" of the Confucian, to the four noble truths of the Buddhist. But there's one truth which is inescapable. Some of these religious people, if not all of them, are substantively wrong in their beliefs. It is beyond belief that all these religious people derive their sense of meaning from the veracity of their beliefs. Some of them, must be generating that sense of meaning on their own, without any help from karma or li. That demonstrates that at least some people are able to self-generate meaning without any help from the metaphysics of their belief. So generating meaning is a natural capacity of the human animal. (Otherwise, these religious would find the experiences empty and abandon them.) No god is required if we can create meaning without any metaphysical support. The idea that your God is necessary for a person to find meaning in their life is contradicted by the experience of countless religious people. We are immersed in meaning from birth to death, we can't escape it. It isn't a Christian or a Hindu thing; it's a human thing.

Your implication that Christianity is the only true source of meaning in the world strikes one not only as arrogant and counter-intuitive, but quite simply wrong. We have good reason to believe that humans generate their own meaning, from the multiplicity of religions. And therefore it's not against reason that the atheist manages to find themselves embedded in a meaningful life, without any strings from God holding her up.

What evidence do you have that these other religions are wrong in finding meaning in their beliefs and traditions?

[brewer]

Stop arguing "against" science and start making for case "for" god. Give us your substantive evidence.

[Angrboda]

Stop arguing "against" science and start making for case "for" god. Give us your substantive evidence.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

---

Regarding "life changing" NDEs:

Spirituality  is  defined  as  a  sense  of  being  connected  with  something  greater 
than  oneself.  That  something  can  be  a  supernatural  entity,  nature,  a  social
group  or  a  family.  Different  studies  show  that  a  wide  range  of  factors  that
influence  temporal  lobe  function  can  produce  hallucinations,  paranormal,
spiritual, mystical, and religious experiences. These factors include the electrical
stimulation  of  the  temporal  lobes;  spontaneous  temporal  lobe  epilepsy;
trauma; psychedelic drugs; and the severe anoxia of near death, G‐forces and 
carbon  dioxide  inhalation.  Studies  of  the  very  short  acting  psychedelic  drug 
DMT, which exerts its effect by binding to serotonin receptors in the temporal
lobes, show that even highly rational subjects can be absolutely convinced that
their  induced  experiences  of  being  in  contact  with  non‐humans  beings  were 
absolutely  real.  This  suggests  that  hippocampal  memory  cannot  always
distinguish between external real experiences and internally induced spiritual
experiences. 

http://search.proquest.com/openview/cfa2...e=gscholar

[Faith No More]

I wanted to link to the cosmology article but as per rules I couldn't, but an open letter signed by 33 top Scientists in New Scientist, May Issue 2004, states the Big Bang is flawed and only popular due to funding. Just Google Big Bang Busted by 33 Top Scientists.

So, what? It's not like they're saying, "The Big Bang is wrong. God did it." They're proposing other scientific theories of cosmology. That's how science works, by challenging the accepted theories. You're trying to turn a positive into a negative.

And regarding your statements that Atheism has been misunderstood by me, I can assure you Atheism affects all aspects of our lives and can be discussed from various angles.

Why don't you start by telling us just what you think atheism is? Then we can all be on the same page.

[Mister Agenda]

How else can we continue to discuss atheism if we leave science out of it? Atheists constantly say there's no evidence for God, isn't that a scientific statement?

It's a statement that we're unaware of any evidence for God. You can easily refute the atheists who say that by demonstrating some actual evidence that really points to a deity being real. Better, for instance, than the evidence for Santa Clause being real. Give us a reason to consider the null hypothesis refuted.

Atheism is not believing any god or God is real. You could be an atheist in 5,000 BC; no science required. Just a disinclination to take people's word for it that their deity is real.

[Minimalist]

Why do atheists constantly use words like religion is evil, atheism good, when these terms are meaningless in a Godless Universe?

You don't even get to first base, do you.  Religion (all religions, not just yours) is merely bullshit.  Religious people can be - and the higher up they go in the chain the more frequently they are - miserable sons of bitches.  As the saying goes "no one has ever been stoned to death by atheists."

[Mister Agenda]

God gives meaning to our lives by His very existence; with God existing, we have a chance at Eternal Life and Love, those are the Only things that give meaning to our otherwise pointless lives that end either in a hole in the ground or cremation oven.

Is a book or movie pointless because it has an ending? I'd say one that never ends would be pointless, it would never come to a conclusion, not even an unsatisfying one. My having existed won't matter in a billion years when there will be no detectable trace that I ever existed. It matters now though, at least to me...and it doesn't matter to me now that it won't matter in a billion years.

BTW, welcome to the forum. I hope you get something from being here and that you make interesting contributions.

[LadyForCamus]

Omg, SHUSH it with the NDE stuff, Iggy!  *looks around*   Sick Ricky will hear!!!  

Actually interesting that you'd bring that up, Dr Eben Alexander, author of Proof of Heaven, a once very staunch Atheist who did not even believe in free will, is now a staunch believer 

(although not Christian) after an NDE. He describes in his book that during the NDE he was brain dead, as proved by his medical parameters at the time in the hospital, he is a 

Neurosurgeon, so we can't just say he doesn't know brain chemistry at near death events. In fact people with NDE's often describe what took place, in detail, during their surgery even 

though they were completely unconscious.

No offense kid, but I'm faaaar too pregnant and exhausted to deal with most of the crap you've posted to this thread, but let's just say there is a reason they're called NEAR death experiences, and not death experiences, lol.