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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 5:54 pm
(March 31, 2017 at 5:47 pm)Cyberman Wrote: The -ism suffix relates to the theism component of atheism, to which the negation is the prefix. Neither verb is a religion.
Yea that may be, but isms still give me a lip twitch regardless of what you put in front of it. Humans are still ultimately individuals. There are some atheists whom have started what they like to call "atheist churches". That has the potential long term to become dogmatic over generations. Even atheists have attempted, and I have been at this for 16 years, attempted to write what they think is their own objective moral list. Problem with doing that is time, growth, splintering and power shifting over time. Not even we are above evolution's ability to compete or be cruel.
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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 5:58 pm
Then the blame lies with theism.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 6:15 pm
(March 31, 2017 at 5:58 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Then the blame lies with theism.
Yes and no.
Yes in the context that we have all these wonderful modern tools, that allow us to communicate and view nature and the universe in natural terms, not superstitious terms. But not in the context that anyone was responsible 150,000 years ago when we had no clue, and unfortunately again, most humans get sold the religions of their parents before they have the chance to be objective.
Theism is unfortunately a natural side effect of evolution. "atheist" is a word that should not exist but does because theists make claims yes. Theism unfortunately has the benefit of safety in numbers so bad guesses can produce more members and create longevity over generations and still be based on a very false claim. Just like the ancient Egyptians were successful for over 3,000 years based on very false god claims. It is a placebo affect.
We can certainly blame less isolated individuals for buying into it in the west, especially con artists who know better, but we cannot blame evolution. Humans like other primates and mammals and other species all still protect that which is local and that we are familiar with. Most humans go against challenge to social norms and while we do have the ability to progress, the safety in numbers is the social aspect of evolution that makes most groups resist change.
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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 6:21 pm
There is no "no" in this context. Theism is the operative subject; a-theism is the response. There is no -ism to atheism. It lies wholly within theism. Eliminate theism, atheism ceases to exist.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 6:32 pm
(March 31, 2017 at 6:21 pm)Cyberman Wrote: There is no "no" in this context. Theism is the operative subject; a-theism is the response. There is no -ism to atheism. It lies wholly within theism. Eliminate theism, atheism ceases to exist.
Not going to happen, there is no such thing as a utopia not on a planet of 7 billion. Do you think all human divisions would suddenly cease to exist if all 7 billion of us were atheists? I don't see that. Again, there are plenty of atheists I don't agree with, and would not want in power. Humans even atheists will never get to the point where all of us are rational 100% of the time, every single second of the day. I am sure even the atheists here can give you plenty of examples of my rants where they think I am not being rational. Even in my own personal life I have anxiety and depression, and sometimes I get paranoid and overthink and dwell on a problem for hours or days which ends up being nothing.
You can only educate and agree to neutral laws in government and neutral labs in science. You cannot expect even atheists to only do good and be good all the time. I'd only say where we see less dogmatic societies we see less conflict. But there will never be a utopia where any one label is the only thing that exists. Even if all we had were 7 billion atheists you'd still have divisions on economics, you'd still have conflicts over boarders and resources.
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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 6:34 pm
You are projecting intent upon me in a discussion about etymology. There is nothing more for me to say.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 6:39 pm
That and the fact in my first post I generally mean that to escape the things I condemn religion on. I'm placing god along with other dogma's I mean could easily have taken that statement to another dogma. God was just convenient to the current topic .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 8:44 pm
I believe the meaning of life lies on the temporal happiness we enjoy. Which makes things such as memories, love, family, friends, goals, etc., painful to remember with time.
I just dont want to have a long, painful death. Nor do I want to become those old men in an asylum who dont look aware of anything. Or get Alzheimer´s disease.
What makes me sad is that I will not be able to see the future, nor the completion of my work/legacy. And that once the people you love die, they are gone forever. I guess I simply have to accept it.
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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 9:05 pm
If there is no afterlife, as I expect, then this life is all the more precious.
Religions that say this life is a sham do a grave disservice to the living. If this is the only time I get, I want to make the most of it. When your ride's here, that is it. Your chemistry is returned to the earth and others' memories of you, and your progeny, give you at least a chance of living on in stories and memories and in your genetic success.
The promise of an afterlife is among the most cruel concepts we as a species have invented. Since this life is nothing, strap this on and walk on to a bus, or a plane, or insert example here.
But if we instead shift that perspective to "we have limited time, let's try to learn as much about this life as we can" through curiosity, partnershio, teaching, and fun, we have succeeded
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RE: Dealing with existential nihilism
March 31, 2017 at 9:10 pm
(March 31, 2017 at 8:44 pm)Macoleco Wrote: I believe the meaning of life lies on the temporal happiness we enjoy. Which makes things such as memories, love, family, friends, goals, etc., painful to remember with time.
I just dont want to have a long, painful death. Nor do I want to become those old men in an asylum who dont look aware of anything. Or get Alzheimer´s disease.
What makes me sad is that I will not be able to see the future, nor the completion of my work/legacy. And that once the people you love die, they are gone forever. I guess I simply have to accept it.
Our meaning is what we chose it to be now while we are alive but in cosmic time in the age of the universe, no, none of this matters. Our universe will ultimately continue on with no record of our existence.
But it depends for me what others mean by "the meaning of life too" because humans act on what they believe and when that gets political that can have an affect on my life. Even for oneself, you can certainly be happy as an individual and still be dead wrong. So to me, it still depends what context you mean by "the meaning of life lies on".
There is the personal, there is the mere opinion, there is the political push by a group, and then there is the scientific reality. "the meaning of life" has to be put in some context before I respond.
It makes me sad my mom died so painfully over days, but in the scale of cosmic time no, nature does not make me sad, nothing lasts forever so there is no sense in being afraid of that. I like you would be afraid of prolonged pain and not being with my loved ones. I would also hate being in mental decline not knowing what was going on, or having others be in emotional pain watching me go down because of mental decline.
I don't want to see the future, say maybe for things that might improve life and health but ultimately our species will go extinct like the dinosaurs long before our planet dies some 5 billion years from now. The way our species is acting now it is far more likely we will kill ourselves off with pollution and nuclear war, so no, I don't want to see that future. I still hold out some hope we might pull our heads out of our asses collectively as a species.
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