What are the Characteristics of a NT Christian?

[Harry Nevis]

a. God is the best explanation why anything at all exists.
b. God is the best explanation of the origin of the universe.
c. God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
d. God is the best explanation of intentional states of consciousness.
e. God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties.

These are NOT the arguments, they are the conclusions of a series of arguments. 

IMPORTANT: it is the cumulative case for Christianity that is rational. Atheists like to pick a component and claim--that's not convincing enough...so therefore your belief is irrational. That is simplistic and disingenuous.

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And, of course, "best" means whatever you want it to mean in this context.  Just like "explanation" isn't really an explanation at all. Not to mention the irony of saying atheists dismissals are "simplistic and disingenuous" after the list of simplistic and disingenuous crap.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Do you have a feasible alternative explanation (as in, alternative to Allah is really real™)for the existence of their places of worship, the existence of historical belief, and the existence of their religious texts?

The Koran is a single text composed by one man of considerable power based on revelations made directly to him and initially spread mostly by military conquest. It makes almost no historical claims and breaks with and supplants prior revelatory traditions. In contrast to this, the New Testament is a collection of multiple attestations to historical events and revelations made to many people, initially spread among a marginalized group (until Constantine of course) and builds on a prior religious tradition going back hundreds of years. The reasons Christians believe their special revelation in the person of Jesus Christ and the reasons why Muslims believe in the special revelation of a book are not the same.

[Brian37]

I think muslims here would argue that the Koran provides those same arguments/conclusions, and maybe even better than the NT. Care to comment on why yours is the better belief?

BTW, I find none of those components/conclusions/cumulative case convincing. The fantasy provides an explanation that you seen to need, nothing more.

The Natural Theology arguments only infer God (non-specific). You would have to compare the NT with the Koran to see which one is more compelling, evidenced, and internally consistent. I think Christianity meet that criteria better by far. 

BTW, using the word 'fantasy' over and over in your posts is not a way to have a civil discourse.

So you like it when people lie to you is that it? If that is what you want go somewhere else. You not liking our word choice does not mean we are being uncivil. If you want to live in an uncivil society try Isis. Here however in the west you can be offended without stupidly thinking we are being mean. Blunt yes, mean no.

There  is no polite way to say it, you got it wrong, those books were written in an age of ignorance when humans didn't know any better. THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW. If you are looking for people to coddle your insecurities you are barking up the wrong tree. Maybe YOU need to consider that YOU got it wrong instead of falsely accusing us of not being civil.

You are starting to sound like a brat at the candy isle when the parent tells you no.

[The Grand Nudger]

 The dividing line between supernatural and natural is not fixed. It changes based on one's understanding of what is considered an allowable explanation.

............................................?

On the one hand you have the natural, on the other...you have the supernatural.  Even to you, the difference between them is not what is an allowable explanation, you allow for both but still recognize a difference.

[Harry Nevis]

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Confirmation bias.  Nothing else can be feasible once you made up your mind.

You're wrong. The answer was in response to why I thought my religion was true. I could have arrived at any number of religions. So, no confirmation bias.

No, it's EXACTLY confirmation bias.  You already believed when you decided that the bible is the word of god.  And you read it through this filter.  Or could reading the bible have led you to another religion?!

[SteveII]

Do you have a feasible alternative explanation (as in, alternative to Allah is really real™)for the existence of their places of worship, the existence of historical belief, and the existence of their religious texts?

I would say they have a problem with evidence. Supernatural revelations that only one person hears has got to be the lowest level of evidence possible (especially as the only evidence). There are no miracles to speak of and no witnesses to compelling events that back up claims of truth. Additionally, it is my understanding that Mohammad tone changed and inconsistencies over the course of writing--which is interesting since it was supposed to have been revealed from Gabriel--who probably would have been more consistent. It is also my understanding that the teachings on Jesus and other matters were clearly influenced by existing works that were circulating in the Arab world.

[Harry Nevis]

I think muslims here would argue that the Koran provides those same arguments/conclusions, and maybe even better than the NT. Care to comment on why yours is the better belief?

BTW, I find none of those components/conclusions/cumulative case convincing. The fantasy provides an explanation that you seen to need, nothing more.

The Natural Theology arguments only infer God (non-specific). You would have to compare the NT with the Koran to see which one is more compelling, evidenced, and internally consistent. I think Christianity meet that criteria better by far. 

BTW, using the word 'fantasy' over and over in your posts is not a way to have a civil discourse.

And, of course, you have done this comparison.

[Brian37]

Do you have a feasible alternative explanation (as in, alternative to Allah is really real™)for the existence of their places of worship, the existence of historical belief, and the existence of their religious texts?

I would say they have a problem with evidence. Supernatural revelations that only one person hears has got to be the lowest level of evidence possible (especially as the only evidence). There are no miracles to speak of and no witnesses to compelling events that back up claims of truth. Additionally, it is my understanding that Mohammad tone changed and inconsistencies over the course of writing--which is interesting since it was supposed to have been revealed from Gabriel--who probably would have been more consistent. It is also my understanding that the teachings on Jesus and other matters were clearly influenced by existing works that were circulating in the Arab world.

Still not getting it. Your religion came from the Jewish religion, the Jewish religion stems from prior Canaanite polytheism. Just like the Koran is simply the 3rd version of the God of Abraham.

How about YOU consider there is no such thing as a "super natural" power anymore than Superman is real? How about you consider you merely like what you chose to believe and want to believe it very badly. But please don't sit here and try to blow smoke up our asses and claim you are doing anything new that other religions don't argue.

[Mystic]

Do you have a feasible alternative explanation (as in, alternative to Allah is really real™)for the existence of their places of worship, the existence of historical belief, and the existence of their religious texts?

The Koran is a single text composed by one man of considerable power based on revelations made directly to him and initially spread mostly by military conquest. It makes almost no historical claims and breaks with and supplants prior revelatory traditions.  In contrast to this, the New Testament is a collection of multiple attestations to historical events and revelations made to many people, initially spread among a marginalized group (until Constantine of course) and builds on a prior religious tradition going back hundreds of years. The reasons Christians believe their special revelation in the person of Jesus Christ and the reasons why Muslims believe in the special revelation of a book are not the same.

The Quran is a reminder, and the reminder and clear proof by its own words are both the Messenger, and the family of the reminder is the way to show gratefulness for the God and the Messenger's religion.... You are right that most Muslims believe due to a book, which I would add due to their perverse reading would not have believed it were it not for victorious nature of Islam in history nor see the reminder in it (the Perfect humans and their path) but I personally don't distinguish between the reminder and the hearer of the reminder which is the "O you" called to in the Quran, which lives and extends to us all by which we are called to be awakened to.

Not only that, but without acknowledging the divine tongue and ear of God on earth (the leader and guide), the book cannot be properly read and recited as we are in need of his help!

The Quran itself shows the signs in the souls and in the horizon is the means to knowing it's the truth.

While Muslims emphasize that it is unique in eloquence (which obviously it would be if it were from God), the Quran says "bring a book more in guidance then both of them".

In other words, it's real miracle is how it guides and unveils the soul to the extent in unveils the mystical link between the heavens and the earth, the leader and guide of our time!


It emphasizes to reflect on it signs (verses) for it in lies the reminder, and despite it being the very word of God which is majestic and higher then all speech, at the end, it's but a reminder....it cannot do but remind us....

What we do once it has done that is up to us.

Secondly, despite clear proofs, I would say Muslims and non-Muslims over all believe in their religion for the same reason,  and very few people will find the true religion based on true reasons and then be sincere in that to follow nothing but guidance from God and not be mixed with the falsehood of people.

If you constantly listen to streams from other than God, you are bound to constantly hear falsehood.

The interpreters of Quran and Quran go in hand....

The Prophet said "I am leaving you two weights, Quran and my family, the two will not separate till they return to my fountain".

[The Grand Nudger]

Do you have a feasible alternative explanation (as in, alternative to Allah is really real™)for the existence of their places of worship, the existence of historical belief, and the existence of their religious texts?

I would say they have a problem with evidence.  Supernatural revelations that only one person hears has got to be the lowest level of evidence possible (especially as the only evidence). There are no miracles to speak of and no witnesses to compelling events that back up claims of truth.

There are mosques, historical people who believe, and "witness testimony" of events that..while still tenuous in my opinion, are orders of magnitude better in quality than those possessed by the NT.  These are your criteria, you proposed this as rational justification. Do you not feel that another religion that meets those criteria provides a rational justification for -their- belief?

Additionally, it is my understanding that Mohammad tone changed and inconsistencies over the course of writing--which is interesting since it was supposed to have been revealed from Gabriel--who probably would have been more consistent. It is also my understanding that the teachings on Jesus and other matters were clearly influenced by existing works that were circulating in the Arab world.

As many narratives in the NT have more than one author or source, or tell slightly different tales of the same event.  Strange, since it's all supposed to have been guided by god, somehow, who probably would have been more consistent?  It's also -their- understanding that the teachings -of- jesus and other matters in the NT were clearly influenced by existing works that were circulating in the mediterranean world

Your religion and theirs share many things, not just a god.