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Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
#1
Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
No Value of Standardized Rating Scales for Suicide Risk

 reviewing Quinlivan L et al. Br J Psychiatry 2017 Mar 16. Carter G et al. Br J Psychiatry 2017 Mar 16.

New reports show that rating scales do not effectively predict risk for repeat self-harm or suicide attempts.

Recent research suggests that standardized rating scales are superior to less quantifiable clinician judgment for assessing outcomes over time in patients with depression and anxiety. Now, two reports show that rating scales do not improve assessment of suicide.

Quinlivan and colleagues used six different scales as well as clinician assessment to evaluate the risk for repeat self-harm within 6 months of such an episode in 464 adults. Clinician assessments measured risk in a qualitative manner by cataloguing known risk factors. Repeat self-harm at 6 months occurred in 30% of patients. Positive predictive values (PPVs) for the various scales were poor to modest at best (range, 13%–47%). No scale outperformed global clinician assessment, and many performed worse. Carter and colleagues performed a systematic review and meta-analysis of 70 studies evaluating standardized risk assessment in a range of patients with self-harm or suicide attempt histories. The pooled PPV for all predictive instruments was highest for a combined outcome of self-harm plus suicide at 35.9%. The authors did not evaluate global clinician assessments.

COMMENT

These sobering results are important because accurate risk assessment could guide deployment of therapeutic resources to those at highest risk. Instead, the results suggest that, largely because of the low prevalence of self-harm and suicide, any measure is of limited value (the large majority of patients with positive scores were not at highest risk). Nonetheless, clinicians should continue to enumerate specific risk factors, to target their interventions toward ameliorating specific symptoms and disorders or removing weapons and other means of suicide, and to try to enhance protective factors (e.g., improving social support).
 
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#2
RE: Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
No surprise there. I don't know how these scales work, but predicting suicide is basically trying to read people's minds. That's obviously problematic.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#3
RE: Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
Agree, rating scales are not individualized and do not address the individual nuances of each person/situation.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#4
RE: Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
In practice , the diagnosis of risk for suicide is tempered by the at risk persons civil liberties. In the U.S. at least, holding someone against their will requires a judges order. Even if it for their own safety. So , the diagnostic tools are geared toward getting the sufferer to admit they have suicidal ideations, a suicide plan, and the means to carry out the plan. These questions are designed to meet legal standards for involuntary institutionalization.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!






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#5
RE: Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
and there's a continuum of conduct shading into suicide

where's the line between risky thrill seeking, neglect of ones health care, associating with 'dangerous' types . . . .
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




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#6
RE: Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
(April 9, 2017 at 12:18 pm)Faith No More Wrote: No surprise there.  I don't know how these scales work, but predicting suicide is basically trying to read people's minds.  That's obviously problematic.

Yes, and that's confounded by impulsivity and the fact that it's based in large part on self-reporting.
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#7
RE: Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
(April 9, 2017 at 1:56 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: and there's a continuum of conduct shading into suicide

where's the line between risky thrill seeking, neglect of ones health care, associating with 'dangerous' types . . . .

I suppose it's intent. Sometimes it's just thrill seeking, sometimes it's 'fuck it, what do I have to live for?'
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#8
RE: Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
(April 9, 2017 at 1:53 pm)chimp3 Wrote: In the U.S. at least, holding someone against their will requires a judges order. Even if it for their own safety.

Yes and no. While a person cannot be institutionalized against their will without a court order, a 72-hour hold without one is perfectly legal.
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#9
RE: Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
(April 9, 2017 at 3:00 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:
(April 9, 2017 at 1:53 pm)chimp3 Wrote: In the U.S. at least, holding someone against their will requires a judges order. Even if it for their own safety.

Yes and no. While a person cannot be institutionalized against their will without a court order, a 72-hour hold without one is perfectly legal.
Not without substantial evidence. I have attempted to send people threatening suicide to the State Hospital. One was actually jamming a sharpened paper clip into his wrists. Repeatedly. They go in, get interviewed, and are sent right back to the institutions where I work. I know of 2 that were successful at suicide within a few days after we sent them home. 72 hour holds are still legally defined and confined.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!






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#10
RE: Effectiveness of rating scales for suicide risk
(April 9, 2017 at 3:17 pm)chimp3 Wrote:
(April 9, 2017 at 3:00 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: Yes and no. While a person cannot be institutionalized against their will without a court order, a 72-hour hold without one is perfectly legal.
Not without substantial evidence. I have attempted to send people threatening suicide to the State Hospital. One was actually jamming a sharpened paper clip into his wrists. Repeatedly. They go in, get interviewed, and are sent right back to the institutions where I work. I know of 2 that were successful at suicide within a few days after we sent them home. 72 hour holds are still legally defined and confined.

That just tells me that something is being missed, either within the institution/process itself or by clever deception on the part of the patient.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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