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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 10:30 am
(April 15, 2017 at 10:24 am)popeyespappy Wrote: (April 15, 2017 at 9:52 am)Jehanne Wrote: Waves can interfere constructively or destructively, and so, pressure would be greater at certain points than at others. However, below ground (which was where ISIS was, supposedly), would not be effected very much, assuming, of course, that their tunnels were sufficiently deep, which was the whole point of my OP.
Yes waves can interfere with each other when they are out of phase. That's how active noise cancellation works. The effect can also be used in radar receivers to eliminate ground clutter. But that's not what is happening here. With the Mach Stem effect you essentially have a strong wave being pushed from behind by a faster wave.
No the MOAB isn't the best conventional weapon at our disposal for use against hardened targets or deep tunnels and caves. That would be the 30,000 lb. GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP). A penetrator type weapon designed to explode after contact once it is deep into the ground/bunker. The MOB has not been used in combat yet. That doesn't mean the MOAB wasn't effective against this target. The Afgan forces that investigated site reported that the bomb collapsed 3 tunnels/caves so apparently it worked.
-57A wouldn't work on that cave, there was a lot rock above the entrance. The MOP are for softer targets, including ones that are called "hardened". Puny humans don know hardened.
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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 10:40 am
(April 15, 2017 at 9:59 am)Jehanne Wrote: (April 15, 2017 at 9:58 am)popeyespappy Wrote: Kinda sorta. The over pressure is the highest when the two waves first meet which is at some point out from but very close to ground zero. Jehanne is right though in that it loses energy the further from that point you get. That being said the over pressure that results from an air burst is still higher than it would be in a ground burst because there is no reflected wave adding to the effect.
Which is why I am wondering (out loud) why they dropped the damn thing in the first place?
Because they expected it to be effective. More effective than trying to get a piece of ordinance inside the cave itself. While setting off a large explosion inside the cave would undoubtedly be more devastating to that cave and its contents it is also a lot harder to do than just getting a great big ass bomb close. Especially when they thought close would be close enough to to do the job.
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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 10:43 am
(April 15, 2017 at 10:40 am)popeyespappy Wrote: (April 15, 2017 at 9:59 am)Jehanne Wrote: Which is why I am wondering (out loud) why they dropped the damn thing in the first place?
Because they expected it to be effective. More effective than trying to get a piece of ordinance inside the cave itself. While setting off a large explosion inside the cave would undoubtedly be more devastating to that cave and its contents it is also a lot harder to do than just getting a great big ass bomb close. Especially when they thought close would be close enough to to do the job.
The Afghans report three caves were collapsed.
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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 10:44 am
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2017 at 10:45 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Hey, there's a place that warrants legitimate doubt. Smart bombs are pretty dumb, and we don't actually drop (or guide) them on a dime..though they'd™ have us believe otherwise, lol.
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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 10:46 am
(April 15, 2017 at 10:44 am)Khemikal Wrote: Hey, there's a place that warrants legitimate doubt. Smart bombs are pretty dumb, and we don't actually drop (or guide) them on a dime..though they'd™ have us believe otherwise, lol.
The USAF will tell you the CEP of their "smart" bombs.
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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 10:47 am
(April 15, 2017 at 10:30 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: -57A wouldn't work on that cave, there was a lot rock above the entrance. The MOP are for softer targets, including ones that are called "hardened". Puny humans don know hardened.
According to what I've read recently you've got it backwards. The MOAB was designed for softer targets. The MOP was designed for the harder ones.
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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 10:51 am
(April 15, 2017 at 10:47 am)popeyespappy Wrote: (April 15, 2017 at 10:30 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: -57A wouldn't work on that cave, there was a lot rock above the entrance. The MOP are for softer targets, including ones that are called "hardened". Puny humans don know hardened.
According to what I've read recently you've got it backwards. The MOAB was designed for softer targets. The MOP was designed for the harder ones.
I'll put a mountain up against a man-made structure any day. Cheyenne Mountain for instance. No penetrator would get to the center of that, but a MOAB would make getting in and out ... awkward. I don't think we're disagreeing, just talking past each other.
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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 12:45 pm
(April 15, 2017 at 10:43 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: (April 15, 2017 at 10:40 am)popeyespappy Wrote: Because they expected it to be effective. More effective than trying to get a piece of ordinance inside the cave itself. While setting off a large explosion inside the cave would undoubtedly be more devastating to that cave and its contents it is also a lot harder to do than just getting a great big ass bomb close. Especially when they thought close would be close enough to to do the job.
The Afghans report three caves were collapsed.
Just saw on the news that Afghan authorities have updated ISIS casualties from 36 to 94, so far.
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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 2:19 pm
(April 14, 2017 at 8:19 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Killing only 36 would be some pretty shitty propaganda.
Considering we don't produced the MOAB because they are expensive and killing only 36 people
i mean how would we know we simply wouldn't that bomb wouldn't leave a human body laying around.
i mean getting caught in that blast directly would incinerate said people. and again a waste of money
for 1 large bomb to kill only 36 people. if it it was to destroy the Tunnels we made sure why not
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RE: I don't think that the MOAB killed anyone.
April 15, 2017 at 2:46 pm
(This post was last modified: April 15, 2017 at 2:48 pm by Gawdzilla Sama.)
Afghans are reporting 90+ killed. But what do they know.
(April 15, 2017 at 2:19 pm)dyresand Wrote: (April 14, 2017 at 8:19 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Killing only 36 would be some pretty shitty propaganda.
Considering we don't produced the MOAB because they are expensive and killing only 36 people
i mean how would we know we simply wouldn't that bomb wouldn't leave a human body laying around.
i mean getting caught in that blast directly would incinerate said people. and again a waste of money
for 1 large bomb to kill only 36 people. if it it was to destroy the Tunnels we made sure why not
The fireball is transient, so incineration isn't likely. You'd get crushed and get lungs full of flames but no Auschwitz oven effect.
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