Islam; my faith; and other faiths

[WinterHold]

Trying to get where that URL comes in when my comment to MH was tongue-in-cheek?

The link is mere exploration, digging, looking, I love to understand what's going on!

BrianSoddingBoru4

Of course it is, but so what? The Q'ran is a hobbled together mishmash of older Jewish and Christian materials, and the ahadith were compiled and finalized so long after the death of Muhammed that they have about as much historical utility regarding him as Monmouth's 'History' has regarding King Arthur (that is, none to speak of).

Boru

To validate if it's right or not, an invite to read the Quran was officially offered: 

Sura 4, page 91, The Quran:

( 82 )   Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction.

The Hadith is full of contradictions, the Quran is not.
The recurring of Christian and Jewish themes makes sense because it's the same God. Despite the terrible forgery Christians and Jews did to their holy books.

Hell; Sunnies and Shiites are doing the same.

My faith ignores the Hadith, The Quran is something else. Reading it is so different. Consistency matters a lot.
Through  history, nobody fought about the Quran. Everybody fought on the Hadith.

Chimp3

An angel dictates the Koran to an illiterate merchant. What a load of bullshit. Why should I be impressed?

The illiterate man who used to work his older wife's caravans, came up with 600 pages that changed the history of the region for 1400 years.
And this was produced:

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

To validate if it's right or not, an invite to read the Quran was officially offered:

I have read the Q'ran (in English, I'm afraid - I neither speak nor read Arabic). I found it wordy and poorly thought out.

Boru

[WinterHold]

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You like Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists are still all in the same boat. 

The only thing I agree with is currently in today's global climate the East has the most problems because of religion, right now. Too much of it has not caught up with modern western pluralism, even Turkey looks to be having somewhat of a backslide into a  more authoritarian view. 

But WW2 German's Christians were brutal, and the Soviet Union Russian Orthodox Christians helped put Stalin in power.

You cant force any religion out of existence no, but religion itself is a horrible way of conducting political diplomacy. That is why Sunnis and Shiites fight. But to a lesser degree in America, it is why we also have political divisions between liberal Christians and conservative Christians. It is also why a Tibet Buddhist will not agree with a Chinese Buddhist.

And it is especially why Christians and Muslims cant get along, and why Jews and Muslims cant get along. There simply is no good way for 7 billion humans to filter politics through competing religions, nationally, regional or global politics. The west simply does a better job of keeping religion on a leash.

Secularism acted as the painkiller for all the problems; a Sunni and a Shiite would unite if they forgot their faiths for a bit; but the problem would arise again consciously or subconsciously because it's a heritage deep inside.

You can't force religion; but you can change the way humans think, only if they were ready to change. The concept of leaving people to decide by themselves is more than important, but would they leave you alone?

Now, we have Jihadists who believe in global agendas to blow the world out of its beliefs, businessmen want to milk the poor out of money to be richer, but always you have a smarter, manipulative folk that would use simple-minded people to fight in proxies for his/her sake.

Everything is connected in a way that builds up until it reaches the economy of the whole world.


I think that Muslims with the Quran can break this cycle. But they end up butchering each other. And blame Christians and Jews.

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To validate if it's right or not, an invite to read the Quran was officially offered:

I have read the Q'ran (in English, I'm afraid - I neither speak nor read Arabic).  I found it wordy and poorly thought out.

Boru

In Arabic it's quite obvious. I'm a native speaker; I only read it in English to reply to people here. 
Translations must be more accurate, and more precise. I admit.

[Mystic]

People still trying to separate the family of the reminder from the reminder itself.

[Minimalist]

Of course, we only have your word for that.

IIRC, there are copies of the Quran older than the Prophet Mohammed's time, so we don't even have that, perhaps.

There is no more evidence for any fucking prophet than there is for jesus, moses or quetzlcoatl.  Just mythology which can be set at any time.

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It makes sense when it's read; it's consistent to utter levels.

So.... the book agrees with itself?  So does Gone With The Wind.  It's still a fucking novel.

[WinterHold]

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It makes sense when it's read; it's consistent to utter levels.

So.... the book agrees with itself?  So does Gone With The Wind.  It's still a fucking novel.

Not with itself only. 
It's a guide to God, this verse for example:

Sura 2, Page 28, The Quran:
( 186 )   And when My slaves ask you concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.

He does answer prayers. Calls. From everybody:

Sura 17, Page 284, The Quran:
( 18 )   Whoever should desire the immediate - We hasten for him from it what We will to whom We intend. Then We have made for him Hell, which he will burn, censured and banished.
( 19 )   But whoever desires the Hereafter and exerts the effort due to it while he is a believer - it is those whose effort is ever appreciated .
( 20 )   To each We extend - to these and to those - from the gift of your Lord. And never has the gift of your Lord been restricted.

He answers all categories of people. His gifts are never restricted.

Just like that; the book is a guide to God. Until that guide is broken, I will have the faith.
I called and he answered.

Many believe, maybe for the same reason. They called and he answered.

[Minimalist]

Not with itself only. 

It's a guide to God, this verse for example:

Um.  In your opinion which, TBH, is fucking worthless.

[WinterHold]

Not with itself only. 

It's a guide to God, this verse for example:

Um.  In your opinion which, TBH, is fucking worthless.

Never underestimate your debate foe. 
Maybe they have something you don't posses; maybe they saw something you didn't see.

Growing up, I went through a lot. Without faith I would be lost.

[Minimalist]

What you've got is what you think is a holy book.  It seems like every asshole with a religion has one.  I can just imagine what you think of the Book of Mormon or the Rig Veda.  I pay no attention to jesus freaks waving their fucking bibles around.  What do you seriously think the odds are that I'd be impressed by the fucking koran?

[WinterHold]

What you've got is what you think is a holy book.  It seems like every asshole with a religion has one.  I can just imagine what you think of the Book of Mormon or the Rig Veda.  I pay no attention to jesus freaks waving their fucking bibles around.  What do you seriously think the odds are that I'd be impressed by the fucking koran?

You begin by feeding the poor in a harsh day. Maybe an orphan related to you? or a needy person in misery.
Then you'll feel it. 

People who thought that faith is a personal property are known to repel whoever thinks freely and have self respect. That's why I despise missionaries, no matter what their faith is.