"Cultural Appropriation"

[bennyboy]

Am I the only one here who's bothered by this term and by the growing SJW culture behind it?  I really think that there's a new fascism of the left, in which how we SHOULD think about things doesn't have to match how things actually are.

[SteelCurtain]

This is as much indicative of the liberalism as the alt-right is of conservatism.

They are just the loudest assholes in our crowd.

[Amarok]

I'm sorry I accept cultural appropriation because my people have been victims of it

[brewer]

What culture, racial, ethnic, nation, religious,.....? Maybe that is irrelevant. 

I know my german grandparents sucked up as much american culture as they could. Even changed the last name spelling. I don't remember them stating that they regretted it. In fact they hide some of their german-ness from the public to fit in. They refused to speak german outside their own home. But then, that was a different time. 

Grandpa could have sucked a bit more, found pro nazi paraphernalia in the basement after he passed.

[Rev. Rye]

I figure I may as well put my two cents into this issue, and here's a post I did over a year ago:

I can understand where a lot of the outcry about it comes from, but, quite frankly I don't buy into the assumption that it's inherently wrong.

Here's one clip from Jim Jarmusch's "Coffee and Cigarettes" that may be relevant. In this segment, Steve Buscemi plays an Elvis-loving waiter in Memphis. Joie and Cinque Lee play twins who hate Elvis for reasons that boil down to concerns about cultural appropriation.





One major point they raised was that Elvis took most of his most famous early songs from marginalised black musicians, buying their rights for a song (pun intended) and getting rich off the profits that should have belonged to them. Fair enough; granted, given Col. Tom Parker's very unscrupulous business dealings, that part of the transaction may be his fault, but that's not my big problem with this line of logic. Simply put: without Elvis making their songs, and, by extension, their music popular with White people, do you really think those artists would be enough of a blip on the musical radar to justify all the complaining about how they got a raw deal?

Also, the Elvis quote they mentioned isn't real.

Really, the whole furor is counterproductive. I remember reading an article (I think this was it) written by a black woman complaining about the fact that, while people did not approve of her putting her hair in cornrows, it was seen as okay for her white coworkers to do. This would be a legitimate complaint, except she decided to focus her anger not on the people in power who stigmatised her hair, but the white people who liked it enough to want to copy it.

Really, people have been pretty much lifting aspects of other cultures they find appealing for as long as people have been aware of other cultures. It's pretty much inevitable. And given that some Tumblrinas consider virtually everything from another culture to be cultural appropriation, it becomes counterproductive to the point that at times, one seriously wonders if, from their point of view, there's any point in trying to NOT be racist. Especially not helped by this incident or Tumblrinas like CurvesinColor, who has reached the point where she allies herself with white supremacists.

The solution: like whatever you want to like and don't let some jackass who's offended by everything under the sun stop you.

Honestly, I do believe there is a vocal minority of leftists who have become such crybabies that they've soured a lot of people on the whole concepts of social justice or basic human decency. And quite frankly, I don't even consider them as progressive as they may say they are. They may share their sympathies with progressives, but their mindset is really no different than any of the other reactionary types.


Of course, they haven't really taken over the left, because, if they did, they wouldn't have stood behind someone as right-wing as Hilary Clinton.

[Crunchy]

I'm sorry I accept cultural appropriation because my people have been victims of it

I can certainly understand people being victimized but I don't see how that happens with the taking and/or modifying of cultural ideas into something new and different.

I think that we probably have different ideas about what is meant by the term "cultural appropriation". 

For example, the Cleveland Indians logo has been used as an example of cultural appropriation... but it's not. Natives never depicted themselves as such so that is not part of their culture and was therefore not appropriated. The logo itself is offensive and should be voluntarily removed in my opinion so that constitutes insulting imagery and not cultural appropriation.

Another example would be the removal and sale of artifacts. But again, I see that as straight up theft of items, not cultural appropriation.

So what does it mean to you when you hear that?

[Jackalope]

This is as much indicative of the liberalism as the alt-right is of conservatism.

They are just the loudest assholes in our crowd.

^^^

However, the nature and quality of political discourse being what it is today, I expect that observation to remained unnoticed.

[Amarok]

I'm sorry I accept cultural appropriation because my people have been victims of it

I can certainly understand people being victimized but I don't see how that happens with the taking and/or modifying of cultural ideas into something new and different.

I think that we probably have different ideas about what is meant by the term "cultural appropriation". 

For example, the Cleveland Indians logo has been used as an example of cultural appropriation... but it's not. Natives never depicted themselves as such so that is not part of their culture and was therefore not appropriated. The logo itself is offensive and should be voluntarily removed in my opinion so that constitutes insulting imagery and not cultural appropriation.

Another example would be the removal and sale of artifacts. But again, I see that as straight up theft of items, not cultural appropriation.

So what does it mean to you when you hear that?

I'm not talking about stuff like that . I'm talking about stuff like taking my tribes sacred symbols our language our art  acting they  invented it . Trampling all over it's  cultural meaning and then profiting off of it . And I'm not even going to get started about the governments attempt to essentially erase my culture. Something we had to fight hard to get back . Sorry if I sound hostile but it's something that steams me off .

[bennyboy]

I'm not talking about stuff like that . I'm talking about stuff like taking my tribes sacred symbols our language our art  acting they  invented it . Trampling all over it's  cultural meaning and then profiting off of it . And I'm not even going to get started about the governments attempt to essentially erase my culture. Something we had to fight hard to get back . Sorry if I sound hostile but it's something that steams me off .

There's no question that native peoples have been horribly abused in the past, and I'd say they are marginalized now, especially in the US. This must certainly be openly accepted, and denying it or making fun of it is certainly wrong. In my opinion, the Redskins need to change their name, because it's clearly racist-- you could never EVER have a "black skins" or "white skins" team. But none of this abuse or racism is actually cultural appropriation.


What if some white girl had a decorative dream catcher and/or she was wearing leather moccasins? Would you be deeply offended? Would you confront her in the street and try to rip the dream catcher off of her throat? What if she quotes native mythologies, or even gets a tattoo of one on her ass?

Would you organize a student union body at college to push for new rules-- staff requiring sensitivity training, no non-natives being allowed to wear sweaters with certain patterns, nobody wearing certain hairstyles? If so, I think you are fighting oppression with oppression, and in a particularly hypocritical way-- this girl 100% for sure isn't responsible for the oppression of your tribe, your culture, or anything else. She's just a chick with a decoration she likes. But I'm pretty sure this is not what you are saying.

[Amarok]

I'm not talking about stuff like that . I'm talking about stuff like taking my tribes sacred symbols our language our art  acting they  invented it . Trampling all over it's  cultural meaning and then profiting off of it . And I'm not even going to get started about the governments attempt to essentially erase my culture. Something we had to fight hard to get back . Sorry if I sound hostile but it's something that steams me off .

There's no question that native peoples have been horribly abused in the past, and I'd say they are marginalized now, especially in the US.  This must certainly be openly accepted, and denying it or making fun of it is certainly wrong.  In my opinion, the Redskins need to change their name, because it's clearly racist-- you could never EVER have a "black skins" or "white skins" team.  But none of this abuse or racism is actually cultural appropriation.


What if some white girl had a decorative dream catcher and/or she was wearing leather moccasins?  Would you be deeply offended?  Would you confront her in the street and try to rip the dream catcher off of her throat?  What if she quotes native mythologies, or even gets a tattoo of one on her ass?

Would you organize a student union body at college to push for new rules-- staff requiring sensitivity training, no non-natives being allowed to wear sweaters with certain patterns, nobody wearing certain hairstyles?  If so, I think you are fighting oppression with oppression, and in a particularly hypocritical way-- this girl 100% for sure isn't responsible for the oppression of your tribe, your culture, or anything else.  She's just a chick with a decoration she likes.  But I'm pretty sure this is not what you are saying.

To all the above yes accept the violence part . She may not be responsible for it's beginning but she is responsible for it's continuation . There is nothing oppressive  about protecting what's ours . And what so many have tried to extinguish or exploit  or trivialize . And frankly we have put up with it for long enough .

As for the racial stuff yes it's not  cultural appropriation but it is bullshit