The First Century Void

[Amarok]

Too go further in

Yes Christians were persecuted but only spastically and never in numbers that would wipe them out let alone scare people into not writing about him . And never was it for believing in Jesus it was for civil disobedience. Hell even if we went with the dodgey evidence for  Nero killing Christian for the fire had nothing to do with talking about Jesus. But essentially attacking Rome.

[Succubus]

Too go further in

Yes Christians were persecuted but only spastically and never in numbers that would wipe them out let alone scare people into not writing about him . And never was it for believing in Jesus it was for civil disobedience. Hell even if we went with the dodgey evidence for  Nero killing Christian for the fire had nothing to do with talking about Jesus. But essentially attacking Rome.

Yeah, and those fucking sporadics with crutches hobbling around the city.

[Minimalist]

In a compilation of his historical papers called "Hitler, Homer, Bible, Christ" Richard Carrier writes about Ignatius:

Some scholars argue that the context of the Ignatian letters makes exactly zero historical sense. Ignatius is supposed to have been arrested and sent to Rome on a crime of illegal assembly (as a Christian), and on his journey to court his Roman jailers willingly take him to visit community after community of felonious illegal assemblies, and to meet with them and write letters to them and generally continue to flagrantly commit the capital crime for which he was arrested, in the presence of entire communities of fellow Christians also flagrantly committing that same crime, and in fact actively promoting the commission of that crime across half the Empire, and his Roman jailers don’t mind. Not only do they not report any of this illegal activity, but they even aid and bet it at every step, taking him from church to church, allowing him ready access to his fellow criminals, a regular supply of papyrus and ink, and interfering not one whit. That sure is odd.  Don’t you think?

His point is that xtian writers, attempting to bullshit everyone, pretend that there is some consensus that the Ignatian epistles are regarded as authentic.  Carrier disagrees and this is merely one of a myriad of problems with them.

Put another way, the Ignatius story.....

[Minimalist]

Moving on we get to the Epistle of Eugnostos the Blessed.

Two versions of this document - apparently different Coptic translations from an earlier Greek original - was discovered among the Nag Hamadi trove in Egypt in 1945.  Nag Hamadi was a collection of Gnostic xtian documents.  As noted on the EarlyChristianWritings website Eugnostos is dated to the first century AD.  The problem is that Eugnosos doesn't know anything about any 'jesus' or even 'christ.'  Nonetheless, that did not stop some later xtian fraudster from using Eugnostos to write what is known as the Sophia of Jesus Christ.  Dates for the latter seem to run from the 3d century onwards and a location primarily in Egypt and Palestine.  I will now let Carrier explain the issue and How To Invent A Gospel.

Eugnostos is a fake epistle written by what is almost certainly a fake person ('Eugnostos' means 'well knowing', an obviously fictional name),
possibly composed before Christianity, as it contains no material distinctive of Christianity, but appears to outline an esoteric doctrine of Jewish
theology concerning the firstborn celestial Son of God, called the Savior and Son of Man (see Elements 39 to 41). The Wisdom of Jesus Christ then
takes direct quotations from this epistle and puts them on the lips of Jesus, and expands on them, to fabricate a post-resurrection narrative scene with
dialogue between Jesus and his disciples. So here we see whole sayings of Jesus being invented by fabricating a historical conversation (a Gospel-style
narrative), borrowing things said by Eugnostos and representing them as things said by Jesus in conversation with his disciples. 1 This could be
how much of the canonical Gospels were composed: things said by other people, in other texts, being 'lifted' and adapted and placed on the lips of
Jesus. Certainly these two texts prove this was being done. And we have no a priori reason to believe this isn't how it was always done.

Pg 387, OTHJ

Both documents are available at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

[Amarok]

But min some one would have noticed

Conspiracy theory!!!

Show me the book burnings

[Minimalist]

In due time, I'll discuss Carrier's observation of how later xtian shits deliberately eliminated portions of ancient manuscripts which failed to mention their fucking godboy.  Interesting what a real scholar can detect that apologetic morons can never see.

[Amarok]

In due time, I'll discuss Carrier's observation of how later xtian shits deliberately eliminated portions of ancient manuscripts which failed to mention their fucking godboy.  Interesting what a real scholar can detect that apologetic morons can never see.

As I understand it a large portion of it was apathy . They just ignored there critics or tossed them in the back room to be forgotten . Or wrote over them. Because to them it did matter what the counters to there religion was they had tied there flag to the salvation mast. And they believed the risk was worth the rewards even if it occasionally meant they had to do something underhanded .

[RoadRunner79]

In due time, I'll discuss Carrier's observation of how later xtian shits deliberately eliminated portions of ancient manuscripts which failed to mention their fucking godboy.  Interesting what a real scholar can detect that apologetic morons can never see.

You have me curious to see the evidence or foundation for this claim of deliberate elimination.  We'll see what "real scholarship" looks like!

[Succubus]

In due time, I'll discuss Carrier's observation of how later xtian shits deliberately eliminated portions of ancient manuscripts which failed to mention their fucking godboy.  Interesting what a real scholar can detect that apologetic morons can never see.

You have me curious to see the evidence or foundation for this claim of deliberate elimination.  We'll see what "real scholarship" looks like!

Who removed of the entire section of Tacitus Annals covering 29-31 CE?

[Amarok]

You have me curious to see the evidence or foundation for this claim of deliberate elimination.  We'll see what "real scholarship" looks like!

You would not know scholarship if it bit you in the ass. And when it's presented you'll just fire up the apologist  denial generator. scream conspiracy theory, chanting, but someone would have noticed, cooking up baseless fiction, Move the goalpost, complain the source is biased , Or you will go the lazy route and just link us to some apologist site that does it all the above for you.

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