Don't you just love the hypocrisy of religion.

[The Grand Nudger]

Fake Messiah quote- some scribes couldn't resist the temptation of gratuitous insertions to bring adornments to their texts..
-------------------------------------------------------------

Prove it..
And what about Buddhist scriptures, have they all been messed about with too?

Yup.  It's pretty much a rule than even if something survives some period of time intact, as soon as enough people take notice to consider something authoritative, Some People™ will spring up to control that fountain of authority.  

Buddhism is a syncretic religion -everywhere- it's been practiced...that changes as often as it's made it's way from town to town and year by year depending on local traditions and authority structures.  It couldn't have been so successful in asia had it not adapted itself, through the work of a great many people telling a great many fanciful stories to adorn their diety and all of the rest with whatever local trappings might entice the local populace.  

In an amusing reversal of fortune, many of these things were -scrubbed- (leaving buddhist principles hanging without their foundations) from buddhism, including the bit about deities, as a marketing strategy specific to western buddhists in a primarily secular and non-superstitious demographic.  A cynic might tie this trend to the hostilities between china and tibet and their need of external..and specifically US, support in that disagreement, reducing the dalai lamas status and lifelong ambition of hoodwinking the shit out of anyone who might listen to him to the position of a PR hack. Otherwise, he seems like a nice guy, lol.

The "messing with" is not only endemic to the religion..it continues to this day.

[Minimalist]

Fake Messiah quote- some scribes couldn't resist the temptation of gratuitous insertions to bring adornments to their texts..
-------------------------------------------------------------

Prove it..
And what about Buddhist scriptures, have they all been messed about with too?

Who gives a shit?  Our problem around here is mainly dumbfuck xtians.... not Buddhists.

[The Grand Nudger]

Give it time, Min....give it time. A few generations from now, when the last christers are memories of people's shitty grandparents..it;ll be a bunch of buddhists bullshitting us in precisely the same way while distancing themselves from those ignorant, superstitious savages.  The cast changes, not the script.

[Dropship]

Khemikal quote- The "messing with" is not only endemic to the religion..it continues to this day.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks mate but can you just clear something up for me?-
Atheists say the bible has been messed about with to tidy it up and make it look good, then in their next breath they say it's full of contradictions.
So why have the contradictions been left in?

---

Minimalist quote- Our problem around here is mainly dumbfuck xtians.... not Buddhists.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are good xtians and there are bad xtians, but the bads can't get under JC's radar..
He said- "Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)

PS- The bads and fundies are my biggest opponents on the net debating circuit, they can't handle the fact that I know the bible better than them and can humiliate them at every turn..
For example a 'Reverend' Eric Potts once said to me "You disgust me", but it later turned out that Potts is not a real clergyman at all, he's just a jumped-up 'Assistant Minister'.
My bet is he's the caretaker of their local meeting hall and they bestowed that lofty title on him to keep him sweet so he'll carry on slopping out their latrines.

[The Grand Nudger]

Thanks mate but can you just clear something up for me?-
Atheists say the bible has been messed about with to tidy it up and make it look good, then in their next breath they say it's full of contradictions.
So why have the contradictions been left in?

A combination of sub-par editors, fealty to competing faith traditions, a dearth of otherwise suitable source material, the functional or effective illiteracy of it's adherents, and a desire to maintain the appearance of credibility........all combined with abject ignorance...and just a scoche...... of common human laziness.

One -can-, if one is so inclined, buy a modern language heavily redacted version of the "word of god". Most don't, ofc...because it's more truthy if they can imagine that it was written on a cave wall somewhere - contents be damned. This isn't exactly a new trend itself. I'd suggest that it doesn't take off like it should because people trawling for magic books are looking more for affirmation than confirmation.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Yeshua preached the Nazarene doctrine; Paul preached the Christian doctrine.  They are not the same doctrines.

I'm not sure what the doctrine of the city of Nazareth is, but I think what's really happening here is that Christians are confusing the words "Nazarite" (one who upholds the Nazarite laws) with "Nazarene" (one who is from the city of Nazareth.) Really, it's a homophone. The words sound similar, but they mean different things and they're spelled differently. 

I think the NT states that Jesus was from Nazareth, but that's not the same as being a Nazarite. We can easily demonstrate that Jesus wasn't a Nazarite (like Sampson) because he drank wine, and wine would be prohibited for Nazarites.

As it says in Acts 22:8 (CEB) = "I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ ‘I am Jesus the Nazarene, whom you are harassing,’ he replied."

Acts 24:5 (CEB) = "We have found this man to be a troublemaker who stirs up riots among all the Jews throughout the empire. He’s a ringleader of the Nazarene faction"

---

Sorry, Wyrd, I missed this reply.

Now think about this:

1.  Do you know when the Bible got numbered chapters and verses? 

Cardinal Langton in the 13th century although others were working on similar schemes.


2.  Do you know when the "J" words (John, Judas, Jews, Jerusalem, Joshua, Joseph, etc) were introduced in the biblical stories?

"J" was invented in English in the early 17th century.  It started in France a bit earlier.  It is safe to assume that once the letter was available they jesus freaks converted their fairy tales to it.

3.  Do you know when Yeshua became Jesus?

In Greek it was always Iesou.  Presumably this was the closest the Greeks could get to the Aramaic Y'shua.  Latin it seems to have been "Iesu" as Holy Grail noted.





The same phrase appears in this translation of Gloria in Excelsis Deo:

Tu solus Altissimus, Iesu Christe.

Cum Sancto Spiritu, in gloria Dei Patris.




4.  Do you know when the 14 Apocrypha books were deleted and why?

You are over-generalizing.  There are so many bibles....each proclaiming the one true god, of course...and some of them contain the Apocrypha and some reject them.  If you want to talk about the catholic bible they are there.  

If you didn't know the answers to those basic questions what makes you think you know anything about the history of the Bible?

Again, there are so many bibles each with its own core group of fans.  Why should I worry about whichever one you are championing?

You keep missing the point.  All of the Bible versions contained the Apocrypha books until 1881 when two English guys, Westcott & Hort, decided to dump them.  The Protestants obeyed but the Catholics kept them.    The Apocrypha has only been deleted from the Bible that the Protestants use 135 years.  The "Catholic Bible" is the original Bible.  The "Protestant Bible" is the Reader's Digest version.  Two guys stole 14 books in 1881.
http://rockingodshouse.com/why-were-14-b...e-in-1881/

And Yeshua became "Jesus" because two Dutch con men were printing bad Bibles and got sued in a London court in 1632.  The name "Jesus" was used just once in the court document. It had never been used in any Bible before that time.  People liked the name and rebranded Yeshua as Jesus and started using it in most new Bible versions after 1632.  It had nothing to do with the Greek or Latin name for the character.

"The short answer is the Name: "Jesus," was not given or received over 2000 years ago. The first time the name was spelled (as far as my research indicates) precisely this way was in the phrase: "JESUS’ psalter.” 
Which was noted in June of 1632 within a legal brief prepared from the Court of the High Commission in London England.

Now here is a medium amount of detail: Ironically, the name was spelled this way in an official lawsuit filed against a pair of owners of an Amsterdam print shop who were printing Bibles for gain (profit) - their edition bears the date 1631 - 1632. The pair willfully engaged in dishonorable publishing and “made grievous errors.” The evidence was their production of a Bible without quality, a printing disgrace known commonly as ‘the wicked Bible.’ The pair were sued for printing subpar quality and lost - having to pay a large fine. But the spelling JESUS which was only written within the court’s document, and which occurred just once, remained to become the Western Brand Name for a very famous Jew."
https://www.quora.com/If-the-letter-J-wa...-years-ago

[ignoramus]

WOG, are you saying that God never said:

Jesus Christ! Where has that little bastard gone now!

[Aliza]

I'm not sure what the doctrine of the city of Nazareth is, but I think what's really happening here is that Christians are confusing the words "Nazarite" (one who upholds the Nazarite laws) with "Nazarene" (one who is from the city of Nazareth.) Really, it's a homophone. The words sound similar, but they mean different things and they're spelled differently. 

I think the NT states that Jesus was from Nazareth, but that's not the same as being a Nazarite. We can easily demonstrate that Jesus wasn't a Nazarite (like Sampson) because he drank wine, and wine would be prohibited for Nazarites.

As it says in Acts 22:8 (CEB) = "I answered, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ ‘I am Jesus the Nazarene, whom you are harassing,’ he replied."

Acts 24:5 (CEB) = "We have found this man to be a troublemaker who stirs up riots among all the Jews throughout the empire. He’s a ringleader of the Nazarene faction"

---

So the NT says Jesus was from the city of Nazareth. Big deal. I'm from the city of Miami, but does that make me a member of the Myaamiaki Native American tribe? 
 
If he was a Nazarite, he'd be different. He'd not be drinking wine, for starters. He'd also not be touching dead people, but apparently he heals the dead. Clearly, he's not a Nazarite. There is no scriptural basis that I'm aware of for a faction that comes out of the city of Nazareth. 

[The Grand Nudger]

---

So the NT says Jesus was from the city of Nazareth. Big deal. I'm from the city of Miami, but does that make me a member of the Myaamiaki Native American tribe? 
 
If he was a Nazarite, he'd be different. He'd not be drinking wine, for starters. He'd also not be touching dead people, but apparently he heals the dead. Clearly, he's not a Nazarite. There is no scriptural basis that I'm aware of for a faction that comes out of the city of Nazareth. 

Saint, goddamned Pete!  Shared the room with bout four more brothers....wasn't but one home phone and no more covers.  

Scriptural basis means jack shit to these people...doctrinal acquiescence is paramount.  

(also, why the fuck is the board trolling me...that acqui word is huge and I got it right, goddamnit!  No More Red Lines!)

[ignoramus]

(Hey, I'm on your side!)





(just betwix you and I)