The need to believe?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Decloak more often!

Bears repeating.

[Astonished]

That's because believers don't recognize that jesus, like any demi god..is an idealized concept of the potential of man (for better or for worse).  By "believing in jesus" - you are simply believing in your own potential.  

If you doubt the son of man, you doubt yourself; and life's turbulent waters overwhelm you.  Take heart, gentle reader..because even in fear and despair, sinking into the deep.....if you recover your faith, you will once again be able to breath the air above those stormy seas.

Or, floaty feet.  Take your pick.  

Picking Batman or Captain America would be way better...plus they're flawed so they're actually relatable.

[The Grand Nudger]

Same shit, different century.

[Lek]

I believe that it's instinctive for humans to believe in something spiritual or supernatural.  That's why almost all people have and do believe in the supernatural.  Going through life has made me aware that there is much we experience that can't be explained by a scientific fact.  Some things that make us human are beyond our physical make-up.

[Whateverist]

In reading that ^^ and in all of this discussion, and my own reflection...I've just had an epiphany. And it's basically how can something that I honestly don't believe in from a logical/factual standpoint, bring me comfort? How can something that my mind doesn't really accept anymore, bring me emotional comfort? So maybe, all this time, it's been me...comforting me. And calling it god. Why was it so hard for me to give myself credit? Idk.

I've never seen myself as that strong, honestly...but I must have been. Pardon me while I sit here in awe over this revelation lol, I didn't even feel this way when I identified as an atheist a few years ago, but this is something. I've been capable all along.

*decloak*

If I may be so bold, this epiphany is exactly what religion aims to nullify.  After all, if people were capable of helping themselves/others through times of pain, then what need would there be for gods?

From the outside looking in, whenever I see people, especially Christians, say that they're nothing, or, even worse, terrible and it's only through their god's grace that they have any value whatsoever, I want to scream.  Because it's an incredibly unhealthy mindset, one that's purposely engineered by the religion itself to maintain dependency.

Theists, especially Christians, like to frame god as a benevolent parent.  Yet, when one says they don't need god, they freak the fuck out.  That has always struck me as being incredibly odd, since one of the main goals of parenthood is to create children that will one day be confident and independent.  So, even if there were a god, I'd think it'd be happy to see its creations stop metaphorically living in its basement of faith to move on to bigger and better things.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than to say: having confidence in yourself, and believing that you're capable of coping on your own, isn't a sin.  It's not arrogance.  It's just another stage in your own personal development.

*recloaking*

You know, I don't even have a problem with a certain kind of humility and gratitude, but it doesn't need to be so groveling.  I mean, if you've ever had trouble coming up with something you know you know but your memory won't cooperate or if you've ever had writer's block, you know that not everything is under your own control at all times.  When everything is going great it isn't a bad thing to be appreciative for how your organism firing on all its pistons.  But there is no need to attribute that to the willful interference or benevolence of some external agency, let alone to listen to another man tell you how you need to act in order to curry that agency's favor.

---

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than to say: having confidence in yourself, and believing that you're capable of coping on your own, isn't a sin.  It's not arrogance.  It's just another stage in your own personal development.

*recloaking*

As a point of esoterica...the story of jesus walking on water -attempts- to communicate this through a common and recognizable narrative tradition...but for whatever reason, fails to do so in the minds of the faithful.  It becomes a paltry miracle, instead.  Magic man has buoyant feet.

It's as if they can't even imagine that "I am the way" was meant to inspire them to attain the same transcendence, not to cower and shrink from all ambition.

---

I believe that it's instinctive for humans to believe in something spiritual or supernatural.  That's why almost all people have and do believe in the supernatural.  Going through life has made me aware that there is much we experience that can't be explained by a scientific fact.  Some things that make us human are beyond our physical make-up.

If you thought rape was instinctual would you advocate for it?

[Lek]

If you thought rape was instinctual would you advocate for it?

I don't think it's instinctual.

[Jackalope]

If you thought rape was instinctual would you advocate for it?

I don't think it's instinctual.

Are you unwilling or unable to entertain a though experiment outside of what you believe to be true? It appears not.

[The Grand Nudger]

So, is that a "yes", "maybe", or "hell yes!"...............?  



Simple fucking questions Lek. Say no. Jesus christ......

@CD, it's not that it's outside his belief system..simply that it immediately exposes the vacuity of what's -inside- his belief system, so much so that even he instantly grasps it. That little quip was just a setup for why he's super salty about science.

---

It's as if they can't even imagine that "I am the way" was meant to inspire them to attain the same transcendence, not to cower and shrink from all ambition.

Case in point, up above.  

[Lek]

So, is that a "yes", "maybe", or "hell yes!"...............?  



Simple fucking questions Lek.  Say no.  Jesus christ......

Whateverist is welcome to just make his point, like that we shouldn't always follow our instincts. Sometimes we should and sometimes we shouldn't. I think we developed an instinct for seeking God because the environment in which we evolved reflected God.

[The Grand Nudger]

Would it matter if we had developed an instinct for "seeking god"?  No, and that -is- whateverists point.  Something more is required for advocacy - what you're offering, completely aside of it's shoddy relationship to truth...is just lazy.

I;m more than willing to grant that we developed such an instinct...but probably not for seeking "god" - more like for seeking out dinner and threats of becoming dinner. For "seeking out" intentionality..not the least of which, a human being hiding in the brush. More projection..but hey.....we're evolved creatures..so you expect the features to have kinks.