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Poll: Did you like the documentary - Sins of Our Savior
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Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
#1
Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
When i read the account of Christ and I read it as a myth that was meant to be examined as testimony I imagine that instead of reading a book Luke, John, or Matthew are at the bar just telling me a story about some guy they knew. This is what a testimony is after all: a story someone tells you. If a book is written in the format of a testimony thus you must not necessarily believe the narrator at all times. Sometimes you can assume that he is lying or exaggerating things just like a stranger telling you a story at a bar would. (Sorry for the long intro but it will help the rest of this make sense... hopefully) So following this logic and using its lens to examine the bible I make 3 assumptions as I read the accounts of Christs life.

1 - Jesus is not divine and has no special powers. (ex. I've never seen a dude walk on water why would I believe a testimony that says someone saw someone do it somewhere.)

2 - No one else has special powers everyone is a human limited by the knowledge and culture of Iron Age Middle East.

3 - Jesus is corruptible just like every other person. 

Now with all this in play as I go through the bible I hear a story about a Iron age Rabbi that ran an organization with lots of hall marks of a cult like abandoning families to follow a holy teacher, giving up wealth, and dedicating one entire life soul, body, and mind to the holy teacher. Further this holy teacher showed them a bunch of cheap parlor tricks. The holy teacher was so narcissistic and egocentric that anytime anything other then him comes up he tells you how unimportant it is compared to him and tells you to give up everything just to worship him and serve him.

Further he is reckless and his delusions of grandeur like thinking he is himself a god as well as his corrupt nature like soaking himself in a years wages worth of perfume in one sitting in front of a bunch of people who gave everything up to obey and follow him. The picture is clear. I do not see a wise and loving guy. I see Charles Manson or Marshall Applewhite.

My analysis lead me to make this documentary about the life of Christ where I go into detail and develop my thesis from birth to crucifixion. If you care for such a thing here is a link.
《snip》
 (I will warn because it is based on the biblical account of the life of Jesus there is explicit content that is violent and sexual in nature in some parts of his life's account.)
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#2
RE: Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
Maybe some day if I have 40 minutes to spare I'll watch it.

Right now, I see no evidence that jesus was anything more than a second century fairy tale.

Jesus, you see, is the rorschach test of history.  People look at the story and see whatever they want to see.
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#3
RE: Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
(July 14, 2017 at 2:06 am)Minimalist Wrote: Maybe some day if I have 40 minutes to spare I'll watch it.

Right now, I see no evidence that jesus was anything more than a second century fairy tale.

Jesus, you see, is the rorschach test of history.  People look at the story and see whatever they want to see.

I agree with you I do not think there was a historical Jesus and the bible could be interpreted in a lot of different way.It's its a bunch of Iron Age lore reedited for hundreds of years. I do think however it is important to show how even within their own mythology there are a lot of issues plus its fun to speculate and story tell.
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#4
RE: Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
More Hellenistic than Iron Age. 


Quote: That happiness and goodness should go together is well-nigh inevitable,3 so he will desire the people to be both good and happy; but it is impossible for them to be at once both good and excessively rich.


Plato,   Laws  5.742

Quote:Matthew 19:23-24King James Version (KJV)
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Matty 19


If anything, Plato said it better 4 centuries earlier.
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#5
RE: Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
(July 14, 2017 at 2:24 am)Minimalist Wrote: More Hellenistic than Iron Age. 


Quote: That happiness and goodness should go together is well-nigh inevitable,3 so he will desire the people to be both good and happy; but it is impossible for them to be at once both good and excessively rich.


Plato,   Laws  5.742

Quote:Matthew 19:23-24King James Version (KJV)
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Matty 19


If anything, Plato said it better 4 centuries earlier.

That is a great quote to illustrate corruption of power.
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#6
RE: Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
The so-called Golden Rule has numerous example from China to Greece spanning centuries yet,


Quote:That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

Rabbi Hillel  d. 10 AD

even this jewish guy beat the alleged jesus to the punch!
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#7
RE: Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
Quote:Consider others as yourself
-Attributed to the Buddha, Dhammapada 10:1  3rd century BC.

Quote:This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you. 
Mahabharata 5,1517  4th century BC

Quote:What you don't want done to yourself, don't do to others.
-attributed to Confucius, 5th century BC

All good fun with dates...however, is there any doiubt that mothers have been telling this same thing to their bickering children since the 6th, 7th, 8th, or even 80th century BC? This particular bit of "wisdom" was uninspiring and common before the first person ever wrote it down, and that person wasn;t any "jesus", or even one of his many ghostwriters. Had a person stood on a hill somewhere and let a nugget like this fall from their lips...I doubt anyone would have stayed long enough to hear the next brilliant thought dropping, let alone been dumbstruck by the clearly divine nature of this mans deep, deep thoughts.

"Og, you don't like it when Ug hits you...so stop fucking doing it to him or I'll feed you both to the godamned wolves!"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#8
RE: Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
(July 14, 2017 at 1:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The so-called Golden Rule has numerous example from China to Greece spanning centuries yet,


Quote:That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

Rabbi Hillel  d. 10 AD

even this jewish guy beat the alleged jesus to the punch!

HAHAHAHAha this is GOLD sir. I cannot wait till someone tells me again about the Golden Rule and then scoffs and says "You know who said that, Jesus."

(July 14, 2017 at 1:37 pm)Khemikal Wrote:
Quote:Consider others as yourself
-Attributed to the Buddha, Dhammapada 10:1  3rd century BC.

Quote:This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you. 
Mahabharata 5,1517  4th century BC

Quote:What you don't want done to yourself, don't do to others.
-attributed to Confucius, 5th century BC

All good fun with dates...however, is there any doiubt that mothers have been telling this same thing to their bickering children since the 6th, 7th, 8th, or even 80th century BC?  This particular bit of "wisdom" was uninspiring and common before the first person ever wrote it down, and that person wasn;t any "jesus", or even one of his many ghostwriters.  Had a person stood on a hill somewhere and let a nugget like this fall from their lips...I doubt anyone would have stayed long enough to hear the next brilliant thought dropping, let alone been dumbstruck by the clearly divine nature of this mans deep, deep thoughts.

"Og, you don't like it when Ug hits you...so stop fucking doing it to him or I'll feed you both to the godamned wolves!"

Yeah this "truth" just sounds like part of common sense and our evolutionary developed empathy that almost all humans share.

(July 14, 2017 at 3:04 pm)trustedsource Wrote:
(July 14, 2017 at 1:25 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The so-called Golden Rule has numerous example from China to Greece spanning centuries yet,



even this jewish guy beat the alleged jesus to the punch!

HAHAHAHAha this is GOLD sir. I cannot wait till someone tells me again about the Golden Rule and then scoffs and says "You know who said that, Jesus."

(July 14, 2017 at 1:37 pm)Khemikal Wrote: -Attributed to the Buddha, Dhammapada 10:1  3rd century BC.

Mahabharata 5,1517  4th century BC

-attributed to Confucius, 5th century BC

All good fun with dates...however, is there any doiubt that mothers have been telling this same thing to their bickering children since the 6th, 7th, 8th, or even 80th century BC?  This particular bit of "wisdom" was uninspiring and common before the first person ever wrote it down, and that person wasn;t any "jesus", or even one of his many ghostwriters.  Had a person stood on a hill somewhere and let a nugget like this fall from their lips...I doubt anyone would have stayed long enough to hear the next brilliant thought dropping, let alone been dumbstruck by the clearly divine nature of this mans deep, deep thoughts.

"Og, you don't like it when Ug hits you...so stop fucking doing it to him or I'll feed you both to the godamned wolves!"
Yeah this "truth" just sounds like part of common sense and our evolutionary developed empathy that almost all humans share.
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#9
RE: Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
OFC, but literary tradition likes to find a way to frame common wisdom in uncommon stories.  Speaking of framing a story....bust out your g-map, take a look at asia. We can trace this line not only through time, but in the route it took from a to b to c and, eventually, to be placed in the mouth of one purportedly divine babe.

That particular line is too specific and too common between each example to have been arrived at in a vacuum individually and in each case.  For the purposes of simplicity (not putting forward every interim example) we can watch the line begin, as it were, in the eastern zhou period, traversing the river valleys and coastal waterways over the next century during the period of the warring states until it winds up being recited in the sichuan basin. From there, it's picked up over the bordering mountain range at the headwaters of the Bhramaputra and thence it comes to us as a part of hindu tradition.  For the next century of it's trip it's carried like cargo until the Bhramaputra intersects the Padma, and the Padma the Ganges.  Up the Ganges and into Nepal, the legendary birthplace of the buddha.  Here again we see it in familiar form.  Three centuries have passed and the literary tradition has been along for the bronze age ride.  This same tradition would retrace it's steps along the route it had come - now as a buddhist philosophy, back into China...but it would also spread NE along the range and river basin to modern day Pakistan and Afghanistan.  Two supremely important places as the majority of the tin that would go into ANE and by extension Mediterranena equipment originates there.  The later silk road would actually be built in the footsteps of those earlier pioneering traders.  

It's not exactly surprising to see this identifiable statement emerge again many centuries later in regions known for their interaction.  It was, in a very palpable sense, carried by human hands and human feet..paddled along rivers and over mountain ranges, right alongside the tin and spices and textiles and precious stones that would take this same route. The same words are placed in the mouths of various local holy men and legendary or mythical characters all along the way. We have no idea the name (or more accurately names) of the people who bore that favorite line on their backs by the sweat of their brows...but we can say with certainty that they weren't smarmy failed carpenters, and it is they, not some demi-god..that we have to thank for such a deep and continuous (not to mention contiguous) tradition.

Now I;m sure it;s just a matter of time until some christer retard shows up to claim that everyone, everywhere, even from before the birth of godman, was cribbing his shit...and that they aren't a bunch of common plagiarists...but those guys are assholes, and they'll say any number of silly fucking things. They can go circle jerk each other elsewhere, the adults are speaking.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#10
RE: Was Jesus and Iron Age Cult Leader?
Diabolical mimicry, Khem.  Goes back to Justin Martyr.  Even then the fuckheads knew they were in trouble.

http://www.holyblasphemy.net/diabolical-mimicry/


Quote:“But those who hand down the myths which the poets have made, adduce no proof to the youths who learn them; and we proceed to demonstrate that they have been uttered by the influence of the wicked demons, to deceive and lead astray the human race. For having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come, and that the ungodly among men were to be punished by fire, they put forward many to be called sons of Jupiter, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things which were said with regard to Christ were mere marvelous tales, like the things which were said by the poets.” Justin Martyr, First Apology

Yeah.... wicked demons.  What kind of a dumb fuck do you have to be to fall for that idea?
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