The supreme arrogance of religious thinking

[little_monkey]

Richard Dawkins in a debate with John Lennox said how the Bible has made no accurate predictions, no real prophecies (I'm paraphrasing by the way). Then John Lennox said that it did make an astounding and excellent prediction (all my quoting on this post is paraphrased): A prediction that the universe had a beginning. Which agrees with modern science.

I dont know why Lennox said that, all I could do is shake my head and go, 'No, thats not right.'

I love Dawkins response. He says how it's not exactly an amazing prediciton either the universe had a beginning or it didn't.

A lot of other religions back then thought the world didnt have a beginning, it just went in cycles...
So perhaps it was incredible that the Bible does talk about a beginning...

Some interesting reading:

The Return of the Phoenix Universe

[solja247]

Nero never heard of xtians. That was all a much later invention.

Are you a conspiracy theorist?
Do you also believe in Fema camps?

Those other religions got it absolutely right. The world does indeed exist in cycles, perhaps the universe does as well...

Really? How do we know this?
I was listening to a Dawkins foundation video and it was saying that our current maths do not withsand the origin of the universe. You dont even have a hypothesis, you have an idea, like Descartes, I think therefore I am.

I'm quite disheartened -talking to atheists on here- that they still display the same selfish, short term benefit/long term disadvantage and destructive individualistic mentality and behaviour patterns as the christians. I mean, once you've overcome their belief that "man is better than nature" and "god made the world for us", surely your mind begins to deal with the concept that man is in fact a part of the natural world, and that man should obey it.. surely?

I dont believe those two statements either, does that make me an atheist?

---

Some interesting reading:

Indeed. It would be incredible if the universe did go in cycles! However, our understanding of science limits us, that we cant theorise something like that. However, a big bang it possibly with our maths and understanding, but perhaps that model is correct, who really knows, only God does...

[Zen Badger]

I dont see how its ridiculous? Either God created the world, or He didnt. Genesis 1:1 sums up my logical beliefs well.
Note: Both sides are logical, but go out on a limb...

Where exactly is the logic in genesis????

[Cerrone]

Nero never heard of xtians. That was all a much later invention.

Are you a conspiracy theorist?
Do you also believe in Fema camps?

No, fema seems to be a favorite of evangelical christians who believe the devil is controlling the world through the NWO.... i should give you the email of my ex and you can pester her with that dogshit.

Those other religions got it absolutely right. The world does indeed exist in cycles, perhaps the universe does as well...
[quote]

Really? How do we know this?
I was listening to a Dawkins foundation video and it was saying that our current maths do not withsand the origin of the universe. You dont even have a hypothesis, you have an idea, like Descartes, I think therefore I am.

The keyword, my little christian souljaboy, was PERHAPS. But wait a minute, if I have an idea, and you have a bible, does that mean you don't actually exist at all?

I'm quite disheartened -talking to atheists on here- that they still display the same selfish, short term benefit/long term disadvantage and destructive individualistic mentality and behaviour patterns as the christians. I mean, once you've overcome their belief that "man is better than nature" and "god made the world for us", surely your mind begins to deal with the concept that man is in fact a part of the natural world, and that man should obey it.. surely?
[quote]

I dont believe those two statements either, does that make me an atheist?

I wasn't addressing christians in that post, for the time being I have too much pity for you guys to subject you to my standards of intelligent conversation.

btw how old are you? You type and think like a 12yr old... just saying...

---

Nero had the right idea. Definately. As did Pharaoh Merneptah with the Hebrews.

Nero never heard of xtians. That was all a much later invention.

Merneptah is a much different case. The word commonly cited as being "Israel" is actually "Isirir" and the word appears no where else in the entire corpus of Egyptian writing so we really do not know what it meant in ancient Egyptian.

So Nero wasn't regarded as the anti-christ by early christians?

I wasn't aware of that Isirir thing though.. if that's true thats a shame, I like the idea of 6000 zionists being castrated. On the plus side I guess it lends support to the "Hebrews aren't as old as we think" theory...

[Loki_999]

No, fema seems to be a favorite of evangelical christians who believe the devil is controlling the world through the NWO.... i should give you the email of my ex and you can pester her with that dogshit.

What? wait! I thought the NWO was a Christian thing. Its ours? Cool!

[chatpilot]

Genesis 1:1 says nothing basically. That in the beginning (whenever that was) God created the heavens and the Earth, of course this is stated as fact based on that nonsense you believers call faith. For this to be true you have to prove two things first: That the god of the bible exists and you have to be able to explain how he went about creating everything in a logical way from a literal interpretation of what is written in Genesis 2 creation myths.

Both of these tasks are impossible to fulfill so your idea of creation falls flat and only makes sense when you dismiss common sense.

[Minimalist]

Are you a conspiracy theorist?
Do you also believe in Fema camps?

The evidence ( a word you must fucking hate, Sol) indicates that the story of Nero slaughtering xtians is a much later interpolation in The Annals of P. Cornelius Tacitus. No ancient writer, including xtian writers, cites the account in any of their works. Further, the bulk of the wording appears (without reference to Tacitus) in Sulpicius Severus' 5th century work "Sacred History" (which is two lies for the price of one!) although without the Pilate reference.

We have two manuscripts of Annales ( one of most of the first half and the other of most of the second, fortunately) and recent studies with ultraviolet light show this little bit of subterfuge.

Detail of the Medicean manuscript showing the word 'Christianos'. The large gap between the 'i' and 's' has been highlighted; under ultraviolet light an 'e' is visible in the gap, showing it to be the original letter.

So the manuscript said "Chrestianos" before some xtain monk decided to help things out by doing a little editing. "Chrestianos" (followers of Chrestus, a common Greek name)) just happens to be who Suetonius reported were causing trouble in the reign of Nero's immediate predecessor, Claudius. This finding brings Suetonius and Tacitus into agreement and also strongly suggests that the interpolation happened in the 15th century when the work was made available to the public.

I understand your readiness to accept at face value all lies presented in favor of your god boy. It does you no credit.

---

Genesis 1:1 says nothing basically. That in the beginning (whenever that was) God created the heavens and the Earth, of course this is stated as fact based on that nonsense you believers call faith. For this to be true you have to prove two things first: That the god of the bible exists and you have to be able to explain how he went about creating everything in a logical way from a literal interpretation of what is written in Genesis 2 creation myths.

Both of these tasks are impossible to fulfill so your idea of creation falls flat and only makes sense when you dismiss common sense.

You know, C-P, when you consider the Germanic Creation Myth it sounds no sillier than the judeo-xtian shit.

The Germanic Myth of Creation
In the beginning nothing existed except for Ginnungagap. Neither sand, sea, heaven or earth had been created. After a long span of time, a new realm emanated in the south called Muspell. It was made of fire, glowing embers, and scorching heat. In the north a second region sprang forth called Niflheim. It consisted of bitter winds, and of freezing ice and snow.

Ginnungagap was situated between these two realms, and the waters from the eleven rivers of Hvergelmir flowed here. In the middle of the void all was mild, until one day the elements of fire and ice collided. In the north Niflheim's cold breeze began to freeze the void, while the southern part was thawed by the warmth emanating from Muspell. All was disorder. Life emerged from the drops of this great chaos in the shape of a giant. His name was Ymir and the frost giants are his descendants.

While Ymir was asleep, the first man and woman were born from the sweat of his left armpit, and his legs gave birth to a son. Meanwhile, the ice on Ginnungagap continued to melt, until Audumbla the cow emerged.

[downbeatplumb]

So the manuscript said "Chrestianos" before some xtain monk decided to help things out by doing a little editing. "Chrestianos" (followers of Chrestus, a common Greek name)) just happens to be who Suetonius reported were causing trouble in the reign of Nero's immediate predecessor, Claudius. This finding brings Suetonius and Tacitus into agreement and also strongly suggests that the interpolation happened in the 15th century when the work was made available to the public.

Well you learn something new everyday.

[Minimalist]

Sorry, DBP. Took me a little while to find this.

From Suetonius, Life of Claudius:

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...dius*.html

4 Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.

[Cerrone]

So the manuscript said "Chrestianos" before some xtain monk decided to help things out by doing a little editing. "Chrestianos" (followers of Chrestus, a common Greek name)) just happens to be who Suetonius reported were causing trouble in the reign of Nero's immediate predecessor, Claudius. This finding brings Suetonius and Tacitus into agreement and also strongly suggests that the interpolation happened in the 15th century when the work was made available to the public.

Something people tend to initially not get when researching into history is that the church had much of the historical documentation and records under their exclusive control for well over 1000 years, and falsifying texts or just erasing them from history was very common.

BTW Mini I read through that persecution link you put on here yesterday, very good stuff. Thank you! I was aware that christians grossly overplayed events and had always rewritten things to place them in a favorable light, but i wasn't at all aware that it went as far back as Nero.