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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 28, 2017 at 4:02 am
(July 28, 2017 at 12:55 am)Khemikal Wrote: People, religious or otherwise, with an ounce of integrity - can separate belief from knowledge. I believe that my sons will grow up to be fantastic human beings who will never be arrested for murdering someone with the claw end of a hammer. I don't know that (and..every day, they present evidence to the contrary..I'm starting to worry that I'll have to perjure myself on the stand at some point in my life in service to my sons. I will, ofc, fuck whoever's head they cave in with a hammer, these are my sons). Similarly, the people I'm referring to believe in a god, but they don't bullshit anyone about knowing it, or seeing evidence everywhere they look.
It takes a certain amount of oomph to accurately identify your beliefs for what they are and maintain them regardless. I find a certain amount of respect in this..you may not, and that's okay.
It's wrong to cover for people who do wrong, regardless of who they are. So if you were to cover for your sons who murdered someone then you are also a murderer worthy of death. Why would you eagerly prosecute another person but not someone related to you? That's hypocrisy of the worst kind.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 28, 2017 at 8:16 am
(This post was last modified: July 28, 2017 at 8:35 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 28, 2017 at 2:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: (July 27, 2017 at 11:37 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I know, for a fact, it isn't. I'm surrounded by christians that defy christian stereotypes as easily as atheists defy the stereotypes foisted upon them by putative christians. That's -why- it seems so strange to me, that we get the "christians" that we do, round hur. The only christians I bother with don't bother to hate on the gays, they don;t have time for creationism, they don't demean themselves or their god by lying about their faith or the evidence or it. They're brotherhood of man types, friends of the poor...from whose lips the word "taker" will never fall. Missionaries that never handed out a single bible..only food and shelter and labor. Carter Christians and true Red Letter believers, lol.
I see you like Christians who do not bother you with a witness and have no concern about your eternal destination. You like Christians who sit around and do little of what the bible instructs us to do. Who said any of us here hate on the gays, that would be your opinion of us because we believe what the word of God says, not in how we associate with gays.
GC -and, like magic, a case example presents itself.
The christians I know and love don't worry about my "eternal destination", because a, they believe in a good god...... and b, they aren't sickos like you. They're already fully aware that I'm fully up to speed on magic book and they all know my opinion of it...so why in gods green earth would they bother me about it further? They're certainly not going to waste their time lying through their teeth about it, I still can't understand why you do.
I know, I know, you don't hate the gays..... you just think they deserve hellfire because you believe that some primitive bigot wrote it down in a book. You give yourself cover for it by pretending that it's The Christian Position™....but it isn't. It's just you, hating gays. Temet nosce.
(July 28, 2017 at 4:02 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: It's wrong to cover for people who do wrong, regardless of who they are. So if you were to cover for your sons who murdered someone then you are also a murderer worthy of death. Why would you eagerly prosecute another person but not someone related to you? That's hypocrisy of the worst kind.
LOL, I'm all sorts of hypocritical, and certainly no paragon of moral virtue....it's called "being a human being"...but, uh, I'm not much for being prosecutorial, so? Covering for my murderous sons would be one of my more minor transgressions, lol. In any case, I'm not really sure how you square obstruction of justice with murder and treat both as the same crime. Good luck with that case.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 28, 2017 at 10:15 am
(July 28, 2017 at 2:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: Who said any of us here hate on the gays, that would be your opinion of us because we believe what the word of God says, not in how we associate with gays.
GC
The incredulous atheists say we do, but that's just them projecting their own sexual shame onto us.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 28, 2017 at 10:17 am
(This post was last modified: July 28, 2017 at 10:19 am by Mister Agenda.)
Y'know, it seems like Christians who accept you for who you are and let their behavior and character be their witness are following the example of Jesus and improving the reputation of Christians. Unlike some Christians who think they can harangue and nag you into becoming a believer.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 28, 2017 at 11:12 am
(This post was last modified: July 28, 2017 at 11:14 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 28, 2017 at 10:15 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (July 28, 2017 at 2:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: Who said any of us here hate on the gays, that would be your opinion of us because we believe what the word of God says, not in how we associate with gays.
GC
The incredulous atheists say we do, but that's just them projecting their own sexual shame onto us.
Yep, that must be it. We only call you bigots for hatin on the gays...because we're shamefully gay...lol. Way to diffuse any notion that you're a bigot.
@MA, yeah, it does seem like that, because it is like that. These two clowns serve their own egos, not christ.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 28, 2017 at 11:44 am
(This post was last modified: July 28, 2017 at 11:52 am by Harry Nevis.)
(July 27, 2017 at 4:07 pm)Drich Wrote: all it takes according to Christ is a mustard seed's worth of faith.
(The smallest amount) and God will move mountains of doubt.
I found you need the faith to simply ask and then follow where God leads.
So the evidence for your fairy tale is what your fairy tale says. Got it.
(July 27, 2017 at 7:58 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (July 27, 2017 at 7:32 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: To the OP: There are two definitions of faith. One is belief in the absence of evidence. The other is trusting a promise. Sometimes they are both in play. For example, suppose my friend has never before asked to borrow money from me. I have no evidence that he will repay the loan. However, I do trust him because of evidence of his good intentions in the past. And yes, there is sufficient evidence despite your delusional incredulity.
You've been here for years, plenty of you have been here for years...and yet no one has deigned to present the "sufficient evidence"...they just want to argue, lol.
So, here's yet another chance to make that thread, and present that evidence.
Just another re-definition of a word. This time it's "sufficient".
(July 27, 2017 at 10:39 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (July 27, 2017 at 4:03 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: By any logical standard if there was any evidence for the existence of god, that would make faith irrelevant.
That faith is needed in the religious community reasonably means that zero evidence is in existence to prove god is real.
Cause it is faith in God, not faith without reason. Even those who where their talked about their faith. Why would that be?
Faith in god IS faith without reason. You may have your reasons, but they don't objectivly support the object of your faith.
(July 27, 2017 at 11:17 pm)SteveII Wrote: (July 27, 2017 at 4:03 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: By any logical standard if there was any evidence for the existence of god, that would make faith irrelevant.
That faith is needed in the religious community reasonably means that zero evidence is in existence to prove god is real.
IMO, I think the conclusion does not follow from the premise because a Christian does not have to have faith that God exists. That God exists can be known. Rather we are called to have faith that Jesus Christ can/will/does provide atonement for our sins if we ask and in his other promises related to the Christian life.
Just not in the accepted way we use the word "known" about beings or objects. Christians need to put out their own dictionary.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 28, 2017 at 7:44 pm
(July 28, 2017 at 8:16 am)Khemikal Wrote: (July 28, 2017 at 2:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: I see you like Christians who do not bother you with a witness and have no concern about your eternal destination. You like Christians who sit around and do little of what the bible instructs us to do. Who said any of us here hate on the gays, that would be your opinion of us because we believe what the word of God says, not in how we associate with gays.
GC -and, like magic, a case example presents itself.
The christians I know and love don't worry about my "eternal destination", because a, they believe in a good god...... and b, they aren't sickos like you. They're already fully aware that I'm fully up to speed on magic book and they all know my opinion of it...so why in gods green earth would they bother me about it further? They're certainly not going to waste their time lying through their teeth about it, I still can't understand why you do.
I know, I know, you don't hate the gays..... you just think they deserve hellfire because you believe that some primitive bigot wrote it down in a book. You give yourself cover for it by pretending that it's The Christian Position™....but it isn't. It's just you, hating gays. Temet nosce.
Then you are confirming what I stated, they do not care if you spend an eternity in hell, well I do care. If they believe in a God who doesn't punish those who choose it then they do not know the Bible and I know you don't. You listen to those who make you feel comfortable and that's not me and you know this, too. if what I do makes you uncomfortable then maybe I'm doing the right thing, conviction is a hard thing, believe me I know. So don't expect me to change.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 29, 2017 at 9:15 am
Was there a point to that other than threatening me with hell GC? I already told you they don't worry about me going to hell, silly. Or maybe you feel the need to insult yet another group of people you've never met and do not know? That seems to be your True Religion.
It's a toothless threat to me. If theres a hell and people like me go there, there isn't anything I can do about it, lol. It's meaningless to them, because they think that people like you are sickos who do a disservice to christ. Hell, we've got one of those types of christers here on the boards..and despite being a genuinely disgusting human being on seemingly every level...even -he- manages not to swallow the haterade, like you have, on that count.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 29, 2017 at 10:03 am
(July 28, 2017 at 10:15 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (July 28, 2017 at 2:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: Who said any of us here hate on the gays, that would be your opinion of us because we believe what the word of God says, not in how we associate with gays.
GC
The incredulous atheists say we do, but that's just them projecting their own sexual shame onto us.
LMMFAO, proof positive that you've got it fucking backwards as usual. I'm with AronRa on this one, in utter awe at the dumpster fire going on between your ears. What the fuck must it be like to be absolutely wrong about absolutely everything 100% of the time?
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
---
There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
July 29, 2017 at 10:07 am
(July 28, 2017 at 2:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: (July 27, 2017 at 11:37 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I know, for a fact, it isn't. I'm surrounded by christians that defy christian stereotypes as easily as atheists defy the stereotypes foisted upon them by putative christians. That's -why- it seems so strange to me, that we get the "christians" that we do, round hur. The only christians I bother with don't bother to hate on the gays, they don;t have time for creationism, they don't demean themselves or their god by lying about their faith or the evidence or it. They're brotherhood of man types, friends of the poor...from whose lips the word "taker" will never fall. Missionaries that never handed out a single bible..only food and shelter and labor. Carter Christians and true Red Letter believers, lol.
I see you like Christians who do not bother you with a witness and have no concern about your eternal destination. You like Christians who sit around and do little of what the bible instructs us to do. Who said any of us here hate on the gays, that would be your opinion of us because we believe what the word of God says, not in how we associate with gays.
Why do you assume we have an opinion about how xtians carry out their alleged biblical orders (my bolded). I like people who are well mannered, interesting and forthcoming. Christians who are likable as people are fine by me. The pushy, dishonest ones can all go to hell, yourself included.
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