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How did the chemicals for life come together??..
#41
RE: How did the chemicals for life come together??..
Quote:No, inheritance of molecular properties through molecular self replication has been a necessary part of abiogenesis long before the process culminated in a living cell. The survival of traits developed with each stage of abiogenesis was subject to selection and survival pressure. So abiogenesis was evolution. It may not have been biological evolution yet until the later stages of the process, but it was evolution.

Well, everyone throws the word 'evolution' around, I guess we can call abiogenesis 'evolution' as well.

Quote:So that destroys the "abiogenesis is too complex" argument, doesn't it? If each of the 5000 digit on a 5000 digit combination lock lights up when you get that digit right, it would not be very complex to get all 5000 digit right, would it? Only if the process is random, if you must randomly select all 5000 digits at once and are given no indication of how close you are unless you get all 5000 digits right, could there really exist an issue of whether it was too complex or unlikely to occur.

You are assuming that if you have an eternity anything is possible, but is it? I think we have to be careful when it comes to statistics.

[/quote]

Also, it's rather silly of you to assert to me familiarity with something I had to tell you only 3 weeks ago:

[/quote]

I dont know why I wrote that. I do know how evolution works. I am studying biology at the moment.

Quote:The fact that you fancy yourself to be well versed in philosophy, but mainly aspire towards those sections of art that make little houses of cards out of idle assertions, does not mean sciences, which does not care for untestable assertions, has not always been part of philosophy or is not the most vibrant and powerful part of philosophy now. The fact that some people in sections you like think science is not philsophy seem to stem from just how marginalized those card house assertions would seem if compared to the methodological progress that has been made in natural philsophy.

Does science ask questions like; 'Is there a God? what is truth? What is existence?' I didnt think so. Science and philosophy have the same roots but they are different, they do have some similiarities though.
Its ok to have doubt, just dont let that doubt become the answers.

You dont hate God, you hate the church game.

"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." Saint Augustine

Your mind works very simply: you are either trying to find out what are God's laws in order to follow them; or you are trying to outsmart Him. -Martin H. Fischer
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#42
RE: How did the chemicals for life come together??..
Scientific inquiry isn't limited to physical subjects. Philosophy is also science. Anything involving at least observations is science. Anything less is just baseless assertion, and certainly wrong when contradicted by something produced by science.
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#43
RE: How did the chemicals for life come together??..
Quote:I think we have to be careful when it comes to statistics.


One needs to be even more careful when relying on nothing but a preposterous old book of dubious authorship, too.
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#44
RE: How did the chemicals for life come together??..
You know, i was just having a crazy sleep-deprived thought this morning, and it seems to me in my torpid state that life must be starting all the time. That the universe must be full of life wherever it is possible for some form of life to exist.

I would even go as far, in my brain addled way, of suggesting that life is still trying to form here and now, and it is only the fact that we have life here already that will happily munch on any new forms before they can properly become life, that we don't have non-DNA life... (hmmm... think i'm forgetting about Viroids in some way).

Anyway, abiogenesis starts with elements coming together in certain ways to form more complex molecules, which become ammino acids, proteins, some sort of intermediate protein-DNA intermediate or something, then finally to RNA/DNA level of complexity, where life starts. (yeah, technical i know... coffee is lacking).

One thing we may not consider is the speed at which these things happen. Life in micro-world is fast, very fast. And we also sometimes have difficulty comprehending how many atoms are (for example) in a grain of sand (no idea.. but its lots and lots i'm sure).

Now if the potential exists for elements to come together in certain ways to create life (and both believers and non-believers must believe this... otherwise you will have to explode in a puff of illogic, its only the source of that arrangement that is debated - divine or natural) then, given even just a few million years with tolerable conditions (ie: anywhere for example extremophiles can live or better) and with enough elements in place, surely its a practical certainty, just through random chemical interaction, you will get the building blocks of life forming, and eventually, life itself. And that even today, these processes go on, but we just never can observe it, except through blind random chance of taking the right sample at the right time (remember... size is important! We are talking very very small).

So, just because I am brain addled today, I would stick my neck out and say that the chance of life (in some form) existing on any planet within a tolerable distance from its sun, having existed for at least 10s of millions of years, and made up of a pretty fair selection of chemicals, WILL have life.

There, i've said it... now for coffee.

PS: Oh, and if all life was sterilized from this planet 100% in some manner... life would rise again. Without god or gods. Blind assertion i know ;-)
A finite number of monkeys with a finite number of typewriters and a finite amount of time could eventually reproduce 4chan.
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#45
RE: How did the chemicals for life come together??..
From today's Science Daily

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...124321.htm


Quote:But new research at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill investigating the effect of temperature on extremely slow chemical reactions suggests that the time required for evolution on a warm earth is shorter than critics might expect.

The findings are published in the Dec. 1, 2010, online early edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.


Note that the study was published by the National Academy of Sciences and not Jesus Loves You Magazine.
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