Australia church abuse: Priests 'must report' confessions

[Drich]

"Pendulum of morality"? I'd like to see the hypocritical RCC's alleged "morality pendulum" dragged to a halt by secular law, and the criminal enterprise shut down. Getting away with crimes is something that has to be stopped. The RCC (and any other religious organization, for that matter) is NOT above secular law. They had their run of atrocious behavior.

Not a history or Constitution fan are you? What does "congress shall make no law governing any religion and the free practice there of" mean to you? it means Religion shall go unmolested by the "Secular law" sport.

Why?

Here's the thing you douches keep forgetting. Our founding fathers answered to a higher calling a higher being than society. Therefore Religion was not to be molested (pun intended) by society. because they knew what secularist/mob rules wold ultimately lead to.

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Are you so foolish to think that only priest commit crimes and confess to other priests? I know you've probably baked most of your brain cells but if you think real hard you might see a broader application that could have very deep and long reaching implications for everyone of that religion.

If Government can undermine a sacrament or interfere with how religion works then you've just given up a core right to believe what you want. Which is all fine and good now, but what happenes in 40 years whe the morality pendul


So then what happens when soceity swings and these laws are implace and your morality is now what is on the chopping block?


Not everyone in the church is a pedophile, and if you remember a little while back pope what's his face defrock like 400 priests world wide, which is all but painting a scarlet A on their faces for society to seek their vengeance...

But I guess blood thirsty douche bags don't remember stuff like that.

OK, not every priest/whatever the position, is a pedophile. Let's move on from that, and I'll ask every religious person on this site a simple question. Your son/daughter comes to you with information about how they were sexually "mistreated" by one of the clergy. Now, tell me how your viscera are not twisted into knots for what your child has gone through, and go forgive the perpetrator. And don't go to the secular authorities, because they don't have authority over your selected clergy. Really? If this is the case, you ought to reconsider reproducing in the first place. Am I only going to get crickets?

ETA- not enough got defrock (sic), obviously.

what church says any of this? what orifice did you pull this narrative out of?

The matter on the table is the church obligated to reveal confession. meaning if a sinner confesses to a sin or even a crime is the church body obligated to report it to the government.

If yes the government shuts down catholic church worship as confession is apart of that religion. Meaning people who commit crimes will simply not confess their sin.

If you d-bags knew anything of confession absolution (repairing paying for your sin is apart of forgiveness) meaning you owe God a debt which is generally absolved with a traditional ritual and you owe the victim which means secular reparations. You morons believe everything you hear against the church and will not research or vet how the church actually operates. This kind of closed minded thinking is use to be attributed to people in the church but I see it more and more of people outside the church.

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Are you so foolish to think that only priest commit crimes and confess to other priests? I know you've probably baked most of your brain cells but if you think real hard you might see a broader application that could have very deep and long reaching implications for everyone of that religion.

If Government can undermine a sacrament or interfere with how religion works then you've just given up a core right to believe what you want. Which is all fine and good now, but what happenes in 40 years whe the morality pendul


So then what happens when soceity swings and these laws are implace and your morality is now what is on the chopping block?


Not everyone in the church is a pedophile, and if you remember a little while back pope what's his face defrock like 400 priests world wide, which is all but painting a scarlet A on their faces for society to seek their vengeance...

But I guess blood thirsty douche bags don't remember stuff like that.

So, if you're not allowed to do whatever you want in the name of religion, you lose the power to believe?

no, if people fear the cop sitting in the confessional they will stop confessing. if they can not get forgiveness of their sin (as what confession is for) it will shut down the religion. as what is the point if your unconfessed sins send you to Hell anyway?

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The whole issue is nuttery from the start. To confess to a 'priest' that relay to a 'god' the repentance that can never be used to give justice to the victym?

Ha. how many priests confessed to eachother kid-diddling? We will never know.

I'm not a believer in this method of confession either.. however I more strongly disagree with a governement who can push into the religious practices of any religion and set up a listening post.

Who won WWII anyway.. by the looks of it Hydra has indeed infiltrated and took over the allies.

[The Industrial Atheist]

If confidentiality is the issue, in principle it would be just as wrong to reveal the child's confession.

So why can't they reveal the priest's as well?

I smell something fishy.

[Harry Nevis]

Not a history or Constitution fan are you? What does "congress shall make no law governing any religion and the free practice there of" mean to you? it means Religion shall go unmolested by the "Secular law" sport.

Why?

Here's the thing you douches keep forgetting. Our founding fathers answered to a higher calling a higher being than society. Therefore Religion was not to be molested (pun intended) by society. because they knew what secularist/mob rules wold ultimately lead to.

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You're the one historically challenged. And you conveniently misquoted the Constitution.  It's "no law respecting the establishment of religion", sport. They didn't mean to protect religion from government, they meant to protect government from religion.  But, just like everything else, the Constitution means whatever the hell you want it to, huh?

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Harry Nevis
[quote pid='1603037' dateline='1502798263']
So, if you're not allowed to do whatever you want in the name of religion, you lose the power to believe?

no, if people fear the cop sitting in the confessional they will stop confessing. if they can not get forgiveness of their sin (as what confession is for) it will shut down the religion. as what is the point if your unconfessed sins send you to Hell anyway?

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[/quote]

Good! No such thing as sin anyway, sport.

[Catholic_Lady]

Are you so foolish to think that only priest commit crimes and confess to other priests? I know you've probably baked most of your brain cells but if you think real hard you might see a broader application that could have very deep and long reaching implications for everyone of that religion.

If Government can undermine a sacrament or interfere with how religion works then you've just given up a core right to believe what you want. Which is all fine and good now, but what happenes in 40 years whe the morality pendul


So then what happens when soceity swings and these laws are implace and your morality is now what is on the chopping block?


Not everyone in the church is a pedophile, and if you remember a little while back pope what's his face defrock like 400 priests world wide, which is all but painting a scarlet A on their faces for society to seek their vengeance...

But I guess blood thirsty douche bags don't remember stuff like that.

OK, not every priest/whatever the position, is a pedophile. Let's move on from that, and I'll ask every religious person on this site a simple question. Your son/daughter comes to you with information about how they were sexually "mistreated" by one of the clergy. Now, tell me how your viscera are not twisted into knots for what your child has gone through, and go forgive the perpetrator. And don't go to the secular authorities, because they don't have authority over your selected clergy. Really? If this is the case, you ought to reconsider reproducing in the first place. Am I only going to get crickets?

ETA- not enough got defrock (sic), obviously.

What exactly is your question? If my child, or any child for that matter, told me an adult was molesting them, i'd go to the police regardless of who that adult was. Is that what you were asking?

[Fireball]

OK, not every priest/whatever the position, is a pedophile. Let's move on from that, and I'll ask every religious person on this site a simple question. Your son/daughter comes to you with information about how they were sexually "mistreated" by one of the clergy. Now, tell me how your viscera are not twisted into knots for what your child has gone through, and go forgive the perpetrator. And don't go to the secular authorities, because they don't have authority over your selected clergy. Really? If this is the case, you ought to reconsider reproducing in the first place. Am I only going to get crickets?

ETA- not enough got defrock (sic), obviously.

What exactly is your question? If my child, or any child for that matter, told me an adult was molesting them, i'd go to the police regardless of who that adult was. Is that what you were asking?

Yes, that was my question, and I like your answer. I will note that I still think that the RCC is harboring criminals who, since they are in the clergy, get a free pass for their crimes. I don't believe in a higher power, and the criminals should be rooted out and handed over to the secular authorities, and not get some forgiveness inside the organization, which I guess supposedly makes it all better, 'til the criminal offends again.

[Drich]

You're the one historically challenged. And you conveniently misquoted the Constitution.  It's "no law respecting the establishment of religion", sport. They didn't mean to protect religion from government, they meant to protect government from religion.  But, just like everything else, the Constitution means whatever the hell you want it to, huh?

So close... yet soo far from being historically accurate.

let's see what the 1st amendment actually says:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

ooops looks like I was right and you were wrong even if I did not originally copy what was said word for word in my original paraphrase.. Seems to me The founding Fathers did indeed want to protect religion from Government, otherwise they would not have left that final clause I originally paraphrased in the first amendment..

Can't freely exercise "confessions" if the state is listening in and arresting those who confess things the state doesn't want to hear.

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Good! No such thing as sin anyway, sport.

so sorry new bus but it seem you are wrong here as well.
a sin is a recognized and defined word in the English lexicon
sin
/sin/

noun

1. an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law:

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OK, not every priest/whatever the position, is a pedophile. Let's move on from that, and I'll ask every religious person on this site a simple question. Your son/daughter comes to you with information about how they were sexually "mistreated" by one of the clergy. Now, tell me how your viscera are not twisted into knots for what your child has gone through, and go forgive the perpetrator. And don't go to the secular authorities, because they don't have authority over your selected clergy. Really? If this is the case, you ought to reconsider reproducing in the first place. Am I only going to get crickets?

ETA- not enough got defrock (sic), obviously.

What exactly is your question? If my child, or any child for that matter, told me an adult was molesting them, i'd go to the police regardless of who that adult was. Is that what you were asking?

fireball is under the impression that there is a church law the forbids anyone from reporting a priest for anything.

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What exactly is your question? If my child, or any child for that matter, told me an adult was molesting them, i'd go to the police regardless of who that adult was. Is that what you were asking?

Yes, that was my question, and I like your answer. I will note that I still think that the RCC is harboring criminals who, since they are in the clergy, get a free pass for their crimes. I don't believe in a higher power, and the criminals should be rooted out and handed over to the secular authorities, and not get some forgiveness inside the organization, which I guess supposedly makes it all better, 'til the criminal offends again.

Are you ignorant of the recent past or do you pretend that the church has not done what you have suggested several different times?

Google The R/C church defrocks preists

Again the church does regulat itself. Atheists and people who want to remain in hate and ignorance only pretend that the church thinks it is above all else. Even when it's actions show otherwise.

[vorlon13]

I'm not quite entirely jesting when I advocate for the Catholic church to make kiddie diddling by priests into a sacrament. The First Amendment battle would be entertaining, and the possibility of negating sex abuse damage claims would easily pay for literally eternal litigation till they had their sacrament guaranteed.

In fact, there would be enough money on the table to 'purchase' permission to acquire children for sacramental sexual purposes from WILLING parents (don't kid yourself there aren't parents who would look the other way for $20,000) and there wouldn't be any lawsuits from that either. Hell, in a free market of sorts, there would be a race to the bottom for such fees and the Catholic Church could be 'picky' about which kids get selected. Catering to individual priests peccadilloes would be a morale booster for their beleaguered priests.


Damn, I'm having a difficult time finding a down side to this.



Other than it harms children.


But that ain't different from the current system either.

[Succubus]

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Good! No such thing as sin anyway, sport.

so sorry new bus but it seem you are wrong here as well.
a sin is a recognized and defined word in the English lexicon
sin
/sin/

noun

   1. an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law:

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Jabberwocky is a recognized and defined word in the English lexicon
ˈdʒabəˌwɒki/
noun
noun: jabberwocky; plural noun: jabberwockies
invented or meaningless language; nonsense.

[Catholic_Lady]

What exactly is your question? If my child, or any child for that matter, told me an adult was molesting them, i'd go to the police regardless of who that adult was. Is that what you were asking?

Yes, that was my question, and I like your answer. I will note that I still think that the RCC is harboring criminals who, since they are in the clergy, get a free pass for their crimes. I don't believe in a higher power, and the criminals should be rooted out and handed over to the secular authorities, and not get some forgiveness inside the organization, which I guess supposedly makes it all better, 'til the criminal offends again.

In case this needs to be said, I do of course condemn the individuals within the Church who have covered up or are currently covering up abuse to prevent scandal. I'm sure any decent Catholic would agree with me there. As far as confession goes though, I do think it should remain confidential, but that the priest taking confessions should do everything in his power to try to convince the confessee to either turn himself in, or meet with him outside of the confessional so that he can then go to the police with the information. (which I assume is already what they are instructed to do in these cases)

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What exactly is your question? If my child, or any child for that matter, told me an adult was molesting them, i'd go to the police regardless of who that adult was. Is that what you were asking?

fireball is under the impression that there is a church law the forbids anyone from reporting a priest for anything.

Oh. No, that is absolutely not true.

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Google The R/C church defrocks preists

Again the church does regulat itself.

Thank you Drich

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If confidentiality is the issue, in principle it would be just as wrong to reveal the child's confession.

So why can't they reveal the priest's as well?

I smell something fishy.

If an underage child goes in there and confesses having had sex with any adult, I assume the priest doing the confession would inform the child that she/he is an innocent victim in this case, and would do whatever was necessary in his power to persuade the child to meet with him outside the confessional immediately where they can gather more detail without the seal of confidentiality. Seems like the most logical thing for any decent person to do in this case.

[Minimalist]

Not a history or Constitution fan are you? What does "congress shall make no law governing any religion and the free practice there of" mean to you? it means Religion shall go unmolested by the "Secular law" sport.

Hey, fucktard.  Remember when the mormons wanted into the union?  They had to give up polygamy.  When they wanted to avoid having the shit sued out of them for denying membership to blacks they suddenly got a telegram from Kolob telling them that it was okay.

You are the utter realization of the phrase "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."  In your case, damn little knowledge.