Enlightened rants...

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not a spammer, therefore our faiths are different?  Because unless that's what you're saying..why did you waste the time to say it? As a sidenote, when I stripped you of your advocated faith....did you feel a draft?   

Look, I know, I know, you don't think you're the same as MK. That's another thing you have in common with MK..and all believers.  None of you recognize your collective sameness, or how tiresome that becomes as an outsider.

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-abbreviated because who gives a shit?

So that's a big giant no, then, huh.  You tell us we need guides, the guides then fail to materialize.  What's the point?

This is a good question. The point is what are we supposed to when such a guide doesn't materialize.

Suck it up and stop claiming knowledge that you do not possess, I guess?  I know, I know, sounds crazy.

[Mystic]

Khemikal, we aren't the same, but Quran is meant for all humanity. Quran advocates we teach of the book what we know and learn from others, but society has become either weaklings who just blindly follow or arrogant people who think they know everything there is to know. The middle course is hard to come by - it is hard to find a person who actually believes in the clear proofs of Quran.

Atlas probably knows a lot from Quran I don't, because he reflects on different tangents, but I know some teachings he does not, but our recitation of Quran and what is clear and unclear differs.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not the quran fan, talk quran with your fellow magic book fetishist.  It means absolutely nothing to me.

I'll let you boys in on a secret though. When one of you mumbles about sorcerers casting spells on the kafir to lock their hearts and make them shitty to gods message and people...and the other babbles about the great satan and it's soldiers gleefully killing mooslims because they're racist capitalist pigdogs.......

.......I register the same complaint.

[Mystic]

Suck it up and stop claiming knowledge that you do not possess, I guess?  I know, I know, sounds crazy.

Well, this is one of the themes in Quran.   The "waiting" was predicted before, and it had precisely to do with "the hiding is for God" which pertained to the "sign/proof" and Quran says Mohammad during that time was the clear proof while for every people there is a Guide and a Witness, a leader we will be called with on the day of judgement.

And during Mohammad time, it was hidden as well to most of the world, and so the position of the leader and guide in spiritual kingdom was not manifest to most people on earth and the authority of God was not established in a clear conveyance to most of the world despite Messengers having been sent previously everywhere, the revelations were hidden and distorted by what today we term "Illuminati" even if the original term "Illuminati" had nothing to do with these people, today that is their code name.

So his hiddenness and the number of Imams (Twelve after Prophet) is all there in Quran and the philosophy of the waiting period is there as well.

And the clear proof is also the Quran but only when properly recited and interpreted through the Guide of time, which we still can connect to spiritually and if we really lucky he will come to us physically.

The reminder is always a book, in it is the reminder we seek, but it also a human, and the rope of God is always a rope from him and a rope from humans, together, coupled together.

And the book itself is said to be "hidden", and that no one will even begin to recite it truly but those who are being purified (ie. those who are journeying to God).

It says in its own words, it increases the unjust but in destruction and loss.

[Astreja]

Khemikal, we aren't the same, but Quran is meant for all humanity.

No.  A book that places men in a position of authority over women, and that considers the value of a woman half the value of a man, is fit only for the dustbin.  A book that advocates killing non-believers should be classified as hate speech.

Perhaps when the Muslim community decides to take a long, hard look at their scriptures and edit out all the crap there may be some worthwhile philosophy left in it, but I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime.

[Mystic]

No.  A book that places men in a position of authority over women, 

As far as I understand Quran, the only ones who possess authority over anyone including women are the chosen guides and leaders appointed by God.

If you mean Qawimoon which often is translated as men having authority over women,  I know for certain this is not true, it means they are to uplift women,  and this is true vice versa as well, we both need each other and need uplift each other.  This is just a way to say, we are meant to degrade one another but support one another and uplift one another.

Because God graced men with things above women and grace women with things above men, we are meant to uplift each other, not try to be the same but appreciate each other strengths and God's grace on both.

Our strengths should not be a cause of degrading women but uplifting them.

and that considers the value of a woman half the value of a man,

Where does it state this or are you putting too much interpretation into the witness for things, as for financial, it was due to the situation of that time where women barely worked and didn't read and didn't get to exercise their mind, and as for sexual crimes, it is simple, who usually likes to spread rumors about these things? Maybe in this time, women are not like this but during that time, women had a lot of time and time breeds rumor spreading and story planning - and so it was all act of precautions.   These days you can collaborate testimony with physical evidence of blood and other means so these laws are really meant for a particular time to prevent something that was really common back then.

 A book that advocates killing non-believers should be classified as hate speech.

Good thing Quran teaches peace primarily and only allows fighting in special circumstances where peace is threatened or people are trying to force a people to a creed.

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I would translate "men regarding women are to be uplifters" and this is true vice versa.

[The Grand Nudger]

And the clear proof is also the Quran but only when properly recited and interpreted through the Guide of time, which we still can connect to spiritually and if we really lucky he will come to us physically.

Then, and as I've repeatedly suggested...I guess we'll just have to wait to be "lucky" and have that guide physically visit these boards.

You're not the man for the job.

[Mystic]

You're not the man for the job.

True, I am not. You can't know Quran except if you allow the reflection and downloading from the Guide of time take place. And that takes a leap. 

And takes a serious study which means going to it thirsty as well as to the family of the reminder,  I can't show whole Quran and how it is recited. What you see from writings is just scratching the surface. It is nothing compared to the experience of the Quran if you connect through the Guide.

The Guide will cure you and unite through inspiration in a verse so many other verses, and make you see a wisdom and hear it as it meant to be heard.

And he will bring the traditions of the legacy of the family of Mohammad and Ali to life. He will bring that tranquility to reality and light and darkness cannot be compared.

[WinterHold]

This is a good question. The point is what are we supposed to when such a guide doesn't materialize.

I believe the following is what Quran advocates:

"No giving authority to anyone else in that time" which means democratic anarchy, which is the form of "government" or "organizing society affairs" I came to believe during my time as a Deist.

It means no clergy class, but we all must come to learn the religion, teach it to others what we know and learn from others, through insight, not authority top-down structure.

And this is necessary, because, the Guide will not materialize if his materialization is not beneficial but the opposite to humanity.

So if such a Guide is not present among the people but hidden, we have to ask why?  And the Quran elaborates why.

But what we Shiites have done is do everything Quran and the family of Guidance warned not to do, we given religious authority to fallible people, attributed purity to people without clear proofs from God, and we follow innovations instead of what God has brought down and the elaborated by the Messenger and guarded by those who truly possess the authority from humanity.

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And the point is, it is saying, we did something wrong when the Guides were present, and it is a time to correct ourselves or further perish, as a test from God.  We have failed the test and until a generation stops following the previous generations in their way of misguidance, we will continue distance ourselves from the Guide and God.

Democratic Anarchy ? oh God.
Deist? Oh God, repeat and rewind, and I thought I've seen it all !

Where did you snatch that concept from; missionary troll? are the 12 guides a "democratic anarchy"? or did you change your personality to the "political Hamza" to run away like a troll from the question I asked:

Quote: AtlasS33 said:

   Answer any of these.
   And no gymnastics or textual walls ! no implicit answers!
   Just give me one verse, across the 600 pages of the Quran that mentions any of the 5 questions' answers.


  
   AtlasS33 said:

   I'll give you many options; all prove your religion if you answer them:
   1- A verse mentioning "Ali" by the name.
   2-A verse mentioning "Hasaen" by the name.
   3-A verse mentioning "Hussain" by the name.
   4-A verse mentioning the 12 divine imams that we must follow
   5-A verse mentioning the last imam that you and your cult believe will rule the universe or whatever -Imam Mahdy-

Your Shiite Twelver belief, that you spam me and others with, is now "democratic anarchy"??
Do you know what that even means ? I doubt it, because a kinder garden reject would tell you that your faith is something totally different than anything related to democracy, and has everything to do with dictatorship and outdated sick concepts.

No clergy class, you lying troll? then what are the 12 imams you're spamming us with, then?

The balded part just demolishes every word you wrote earlier; troll. Carry a book; because I doubt you can even read. You only stalk forums, copy-catting like a proper troll. You're not even worth my time; take the shower I told you to take, collect the cash from your Shiite missionary organization for your keyboard Jihadi efforts, watch porn, and play some simple minded people around. Live the troll dream.

Democratic Anarchy -_- Deist. Schizophrenia. You are mr Everything!

[The Grand Nudger]

True, I am not. You can't know Quran except if you allow the reflection and downloading from the Guide of time take place. And that takes a leap. 

And takes a serious study which means going to it thirsty as well as to the family of the reminder,  I can't show whole Quran and how it is recited. What you see from writings is just scratching the surface. It is nothing compared to the experience of the Quran if you connect through the Guide.

The Guide will cure you and unite through inspiration in a verse so many other verses, and make you see a wisdom and hear it as it meant to be heard.

And he will bring the traditions of the legacy of the family of Mohammad and Ali to life. He will bring that tranquility to reality and light and darkness cannot be compared.

If I had to place a bet, you and yours will still be waiting for the mahdi 2k years from now, same as the christers have been. Looks to be a few centuries in already.