Emotions are intrinsically good and bad

[Little lunch]

I think I get it.
A blind man can smell a potato, but only if it's cooked.
If it doesn't taste good to him, then he is inferior and worthless.
Currently, TD is the only person in the world who likes the taste of cooked potatoes, although he hasn't always.
Therefore he is no longer blind, which makes him superior and worth something.
The rest of us eat only tomatoes, which we can describe as red, but cannot visualise.
Tomatoes and potatoes mashed together produces an inner light.
Therefore you do not need to season it with salt and pepper.

I have no idea what the rest of you are on about with your subjective and objective bullshit.
It's not even food, it has no taste.

[Kitan Etos]

I think I get it.
A blind man can smell a potato, but only if it's cooked.
If it doesn't taste good to him, then he is inferior and worthless.
Currently, TD is the only person in the world who likes the taste of cooked potatoes, although he hasn't always.
Therefore he is no longer blind, which makes him superior and worth something.
The rest of us eat only tomatoes, which we can describe as red, but cannot visualise.
Tomatoes and potatoes mashed together produces an inner light.
Therefore you do not need to season it with salt and pepper.

I have no idea what the rest of you are on about with your subjective and objective bullshit.
It's not even food, it has no taste.

You should register as an interpreter for crazy.

[Transcended Dimensions]

No it's an awful metaphor because it's as obnoxious as the image it's based on. This "inner light" shit is vile so why would you want that as a metaphor? It stinks of religion, spirituality, superstition and woo. If you really did have a half-decent position why would you want to relate it to religion???? Wtf.

Instead of your disgusting metaphors and failed analogies... how about you actually make a sound argument for once. And instead of having a position disgustingly reminiscent of a religion... why not actually have a respectable philosophical position?

---

When I feel a positive emotion such as a profound feeling of love or beauty, then I display a personality that reflects that.  I display profoundly loving and beautiful tones, acts, and gestures.  That is why I describe my positive emotions as the inner light.  When people feel intense love or excitement, you see them display these sorts of positive expressions which reflect this inner light they have within them.  Likewise, when people feel negative emotions such as hate and disgust and they act out upon them, then they are acting out upon an inner darkness, so to speak.

And even if they could.... your analogy is terrible again. Saying "They could work it out so I could work it out even though I haven't even made an argument yet" doesn't work. Stop using analogies because you clearly don't know how to use them.

Again, as I have repeatedly made crystal clear: The premise "Emotions are intrinsically good and bad" doesn't entail "Time is more important than intensity." and giving a shitty analogy that doesn't even work won't do you any good. And even if your analogy wasn't a false analogy and we accepted your point that you could work it out.... the fact you have to work it out and use common sense is just admitting that your premise for intrinsic value is insufficient because you also need common sense.

And once again: you're wrong. Intensity is more important than time. And I actually have arguments to support that position... unlike yourself.

Then what I should have said was that I could think of a certain idea, decision, or situation as having good value during a moment where I did not have euphoria at all, but said situation would not matter to me at all and I would be doing nothing than just making a choice.  The only situation that would matter to me is the one I am feeling a negative emotion from.  When something matters to me in either a good way or a bad way, then I define that as perceiving good and bad value like how a sighted person is able to visualize colors.  It's like my brain doesn't get the "good" or "bad" signal to make things matter to me in good or bad ways independent of my euphoria/dysphoria just like how a blind person doesn't get the visual signal that would allow him to visualize colors.  This has been my own personal experience. 

If I was feeling nothing but excited and joyful since I was getting a new game or movie and something tragic were happening in my life right now, then that tragic situation would not matter to me at all.  It is only once I feel a negative emotion from that tragic event that it matters to me and is now a truly horrible situation to me.  If I was a molester and I harmed someone innocent and got a euphoric high off of that, then it doesn't matter what I think or believe otherwise. That situation would only matter to me in a good way since my brain would be getting the "good" message.  But if I harmed that person and I felt a negative emotion such as sadness and misery, then that situation would matter to me in a horrible way since my brain would be getting the "bad" message.

No. I am the transcended one here. In fact I am both more disabled and more transcended than you. And I don't need a username to tell everyone that

I think we can start here with this question.  If you were to have no euphoria such as due to a stressful life event or emotional trauma and you believed that things and moments in your life were still good and beautiful, then what would that be like for you?  You might say that it is like something good and beautiful since it is the words "good" and "beautiful" being believed in your mind in regards to those things, situations, and moments.  But I am asking you to look beyond those words.  There should be a form of goodness and beauty there that transcends words.  It would literally be the most powerful and profound state of being and living you could be in.  From my perspective, that state would be our euphoria.

However, I am asking you if there is any goodness and beauty beyond those words going through your mind during those moments.  If there is none there, then I can honestly conclude that your life has no real good value and beauty at all.  For example, a blind person can think of colors and he could tell you what that was like for him.  He could tell you that it was like red, blue, and green for him.  But these would just be words.  There is a form of red, green, and blue that goes beyond words and that would, again, be him visualizing those colors. 

So, what I am asking you here is if you are able to "visualize," so to speak, the good value, happiness, joy, and beauty in your life during moments where you are completely miserable and/or don't have your euphoria.  By the way, all those terms of happiness, joy, beauty, etc. would actually have to be synonymous with good value because, since positive emotions are what allow us to truly perceive good value and, thus, joy, happiness, and beauty all at the same time, then that would have to be synonymous.  

You see, I live my life by a standard of good value and beauty that transcends words.  If this standard does not get met, then my life is completely empty.  I have every reason to think this is the correct standard that many people have not been awakened to.  In other words, I live my life by higher values which are the real values that I describe in my other packet as "Consciousness based values" as opposed to mere value judgment based values which are simply words.  That is why I reach the conclusion that our euphoria are truly the only real way we can perceive good value regardless of the moral implications.

I just think that many people are not awakened to the inner light (a metaphorical term I like to use).  The inner light is the goodness and beauty that transcends words.  I am not sure if it can take on another form besides our positive emotions.  I just don't want to be that blind person who thinks of colors, but has no real colors in his life.  But my worldview does pose horrible moral implications that are pointed out later on.  I wonder if there is some workaround this while still sticking to my worldview. 

If you were on your computer and there were some worded options there and one of the options was faded, then that option would still be there.  It would just be neutral ("dead") so to speak.  This might mean that there can be real good value in your life independent of your euphoria.  It would just be a "dead" version of good value.  That is, your life would still be completely empty, but there would still be real good value in your life since the words good value are still there being acknowledged.  So, it would be like you have no real good value in your life while, at the same time, having real good value in your life.

I will also give another analogy.  If there was a person who died and his name was "Good," then Good would still be there.  He would just be a dead body.  Our euphoria are like the life force to this dead man that would bring Good back to life.  So, what I am saying here is that we need our euphoria.  Otherwise, our lives would be completely empty.  We would still have good value being believed in our minds during our miserable moments.  But there would be no inner "life" to those words in our mind.  Thus, our inner universe would be completely dead and empty for the time being until we reach a state of full recovery where we have our euphoria back to us again.

[Cyberman]

Newsflash - the world doesn't revolve around you. Other people have needs and opinions that don't mesh with yours. Get over it.

Alright then.  If my idea were true, then it would reveal that, as long as you don't have your positive emotions, then your life is worthless and of no good value.  How do you like that one for a change?  Also, if people are going to not show sympathy and if they are just going to dismiss my needs, then they are, to me, worthless and inferior scum/trash.  If my worldview were somehow true, then that would return the favor upon them by revealing to them that their lives are of no good value and meaningless without their positive emotions.  That would make me the winner and them the inferior losers.

Only in your opinion, which you have demonstrated time and again to be worthless. Fortunately, the rest of us have this new thing called society, which funnily enough you depend on for the beneficial things and then piss all over when it suits you, merely so that you can feed your need to imagine yourself superior. I'm no psychologist, but I'm sure there's a name for that.

[Edwardo Piet]

 "Good" means whatever you want it to mean, based on your individual feelings and predilections.

There are multiple definitions of the word "good" depending on context. That is not the same thing as it being purely subjective. As Sam Harris notes... there is no meaningful sense in which the worst possible misery for everyone isn't bad in a moral context. Non-consequentalist theories wouldn't be taken seriously if none of their virtues and rules didn't often lead to good consequences. Even non-consequentalist theories implicitly presuppose the soundness of consequentalism, therefore.

 There is great agreement about what "apple" and "science" mean, and little about what constitutes good or bad.

You've got this completely ass backwards if you think agreement and disagreement is relevant. The whole point of objectivity is agreement or disagreement over something is irrelevant.

"Objective" doesn't mean "universal". Everyone in the world doesn't have to agree that Nazism is bad for Nazism to be bad. And if Nazism really is objectively bad then if Hitler won the war and the whole world converted to Nazism then Nazism would still be bad. It wouldn't matter that everyone universally agreed that it was good. That's what objectively good or bad means. It means something is good or bad regardless of if people agree or disagree on the matter

Is 2+2=4 objectively true because most people agree that 2+2=4? NO! 2+2=4 is objectively true because it's true regardless of whether people agree with or understand the answer. That's what objective means. You've got this entirely backwards.

"Intrinsic" doesn't mean everyone has to agree. On the contrary, it means something is the way it is in and of itself regardless of disagreement or agreement.

So it's ironic that you said I didn't know what "intrinsic" means and that I needed to invest in a dictionary. When it's very clear that it's you who doesn't know what it means. And maybe you should go and read the dictionary. I once spent every day reading a dictionary for 8 months straight. And I often do read it every now and then purely for enjoyment. I'm the last person who needs to do further revision.

---

I think I get it.
A blind man can smell a potato, but only if it's cooked.
If it doesn't taste good to him, then he is inferior and worthless.
Currently, TD is the only person in the world who likes the taste of cooked potatoes, although he hasn't always.
Therefore he is no longer blind, which makes him superior and worth something.
The rest of us eat only tomatoes, which we can describe as red, but cannot visualise.
Tomatoes and potatoes mashed together produces an inner light.
Therefore you do not need to season it with salt and pepper.

I have no idea what the rest of you are on about with your subjective and objective bullshit.
It's not even food, it has no taste.

But......... I LOVE cooked potatoes too

[Edwardo Piet]

[Transcended Dimensions]

[Edwardo Piet]

I will just say one thing here.  I personally do not believe in positive and negative experiences and, thus, I do not believe in any real good and bad value that can come about in our lives independent of those euphoric and dysphoric states I've defined.  I would actually redefine positive and negative experiences to instead mean those euphoric and dysphoric states I've defined.  If I have anything else to say, then I will say it.

You're thinking in extremes. You also need help.

There are good feelings that aren't intense euphoria. And not all feelings of euphoria are good. Sadistic euphoria is bad. So is thinking options on a computer screen has ultimate meaning to your life and is trying to tell you something. That is psychosis experienced as apophenia. Get help. You have many of the signs of a manic episode (euphoria, seeing patterns in everything and thinking it has some sort of ultimate meaning to your life (apophenia) and pressured speech). Get help.

I didn't give you a gigantic response for you to respond with a couple of sentences after quoting my huge post and completely failing to use hide tags. Use hide tags when quoting a gigantic amount. And I am not going to waste my energy on you if you're going to give such a comparatively tiny response.

Although, meh, I guess my awesome (and enlightened) post is there for other people to read if they're interested It's not just for you. In fact you're probably not openminded enough or ready enough to learn anything from me. And hell, why am I even questioning this? I already decided you're having a manic episode. If I were a theist I'd be praying for you to call a doctor right now. Although anyone who needs help is unlikely to have the self-awareness required to ask for help... so you're more likely to receive help when you worsen and someone else calls for help for you. And if you're sensible enough to call for help then the doctors will think you don't need it. Unfortunately.

[Transcended Dimensions]

I will just say one thing here.  I personally do not believe in positive and negative experiences and, thus, I do not believe in any real good and bad value that can come about in our lives independent of those euphoric and dysphoric states I've defined.  I would actually redefine positive and negative experiences to instead mean those euphoric and dysphoric states I've defined.  If I have anything else to say, then I will say it.

You're thinking in extremes. You also need help.

There are good feelings that aren't intense euphoria. And not all feelings of euphoria are good. Sadistic euphoria is bad. So is thinking options on a computer screen has ultimate meaning to your life and is trying to tell you something. That is psychosis experienced as apophenia. Get help. You have many of the signs of a manic episode (euphoria, seeing patterns in everything and thinking it has some sort of ultimate meaning to your life (apophenia) and pressured speech). Get help.

Even if the euphoria wasn't that intense, that would still qualify according to my definition of a positive experience.  But if there was no such euphoria at all whatsoever, then that cannot be a positive experience according to my definition.  It cannot be a positive feeling either.  The same rule applies to dysphoria.  As for me having a mental illness, I do not act crazy at all.  I am completely cool and calm.  I do not have manic states or anything of the sort.  So, rather than me being some psychotic, crazy person, perhaps I am just having a load of misconceptions.  Remember, I do not have much insight at all and my only insight is my own personal experience which I am convinced of.

[Edwardo Piet]

Even if the euphoria wasn't that intense, that would still qualify according to my definition of a positive experience. 

So you call an okayish feeling extremely extremely extremely mild euphoria?

It isn't really. There's nothing euphoric about extremely mild happiness that is rather "meh". Euphoria is a whole other level. It's also not always good because, yes, sadistic euphoria is a thing. So is foolish euphoria and drug crazed euphoria.

But if there was no such euphoria at all whatsoever, then that cannot be a positive experience according to my definition.

Well your definition is extremely narrow, limited, naive and philosophically unsophisticated.

  It cannot be a positive feeling either.

Your definition is unsound then. Not all positive feelings are euphoric. All euphoria is a positive feeling (if we define "positive" as "feels good", I mean).... but not all positive feelings are euphoric.

Here's an analogy for you that actually works: Not all animals are dogs but all dogs are animals. Just as not all joy is euphoric but all euphoria is joyful (just on a more intense level). By saying that all positive emotion is euphoria otherwise it isn't a positive emotion that's like you defining all animals as dogs and saying that according to your definition if an animal isn't a dog then it isn't really an animal. Your definition is stupid then.

  The same rule applies to dysphoria.  As for me having a mental illness, I do not act crazy at all.  I am completely cool and calm. 

Well... I believe you. Because I often come across as hyperactive or super emotional online but I'm sitting here completely cool and calm too. So I can relate to that. However you do say things that are crazy like thinking that certain options on your computer screen has some sort of metaphorical meaning to your life. That's psychotic and resembles apophenia.

I do not have manic states or anything of the sort.

How would you know? Mania is often euphoric. It also isn't healthy. So there's already one example for you right there why there's more to intrinsic goodness than euphoria. Mania itself is an example of something ultimately negative that on the surface is very euphoric indeed.

I should know. I've experienced euphoric mania several times in the past.

And it's not like I even have to have that experience. Euphoric mania is very much a thing. There are really only 3 forms of mania: Euphoric mania, irritable mania and mixed state mania. The first kind indeed feeling very euphoric and including the experience of euphoria. And it feels amazing. It's also extremely dysfunctional.

And dysphoria can often be more functional than euphoria! Go figure.

  So, rather than me being some psychotic, crazy person, perhaps I am just having a load of misconceptions.

Perhaps. But you alluded to some rather crazy level apophenia.

  Remember, I do not have much insight at all and my only insight is my own personal experience which I am convinced of.

Well we certainly agree there. You do not have much insight at all.

I do though.