Emotions are intrinsically good and bad

[Edwardo Piet]

You agreed earlier that we needed a positive experience to truly make our lives good and beautiful.  That would be a positive state of mind.

Yes, and yes.

  You would need a real quality of it there to truly make your life good and beautiful rather than defining your life as good and beautiful.

Yes. So this "inner light" shit is pointless if the emotions aren't there.

  As I said before, if you had no positive emotion and no positive experience, then your life can only be nothing.

Yes I know.

But minimizing suffering is more important. Avoiding negative experiences is more important.

In an ideal world we'd all have maximum positive emotion. But we don't live in an ideal world. A more realistic goal is to start by eliminating the negatives and being reasonably happy. And it's going to be difficult to function normally and healthily and move beyond reasonably happy.

[Transcended Dimensions]

You agreed earlier that we needed a positive experience to truly make our lives good and beautiful.  That would be a positive state of mind.

Yes, and yes.

  You would need a real quality of it there to truly make your life good and beautiful rather than defining your life as good and beautiful.

Yes. So this "inner light" shit is pointless if the emotions aren't there.

  As I said before, if you had no positive emotion and no positive experience, then your life can only be nothing.

Yes I know.

But minimizing suffering is more important. Avoiding negative experiences is more important.

In an ideal world we'd all have maximum positive emotion. But we don't live in an ideal world. A more realistic goal is to start by eliminating the negatives and being reasonably happy. And it's going to be difficult to function normally and healthily and move beyond reasonably happy.

As for me, I had no positive emotion and no positive experience there during my miserable moments regardless of the fact that I believed the idea of getting help to be something good and beautiful.  So, I am the unfortunate one here since, in the absence of my positive emotions, I cannot have a positive experience during my miserable moments.

[Edwardo Piet]

As for me, I had no positive emotion and no positive experience there during my miserable moments regardless of the fact that I believed the idea of getting help to be something good and beautiful.  So, I am the unfortunate one here since, in the absence of my positive emotions, I cannot have a positive experience during my miserable moments.

I myself am usually unaware of my emotions because I'm too caught up in the moment. I am sure I'm happy as fuck most of the time but I'm too busy enjoying myself to really think about what I'm actually feeling. I'm extremely present moment. I'm an expert at living in the present. I am sure I am much more enlightened than you are.

[Transcended Dimensions]

As for me, I had no positive emotion and no positive experience there during my miserable moments regardless of the fact that I believed the idea of getting help to be something good and beautiful.  So, I am the unfortunate one here since, in the absence of my positive emotions, I cannot have a positive experience during my miserable moments.

I myself am usually unaware of my emotions because I'm too caught up in the moment. I am sure I'm happy as fuck most of the time but I'm too busy enjoying myself to really think about what I'm actually feeling. I'm extremely present moment. I'm an expert at living in the present. I am sure I am much more enlightened than you are.

I respect your view, but how can this be enlightenment when it would actually be a form of delusion?  If you were not having any real quality of a positive experience and a positive emotion there at all and you claimed that you were just too busy enjoying your life and living in the present, then that would presuppose the existence of a positive experience and/or a positive emotion there.  Otherwise, you would just be deluding yourself.  I do not see how this is any form of enlightenment at all.  If you were to live by the standard of truth, then you would pay attention to your inner universe which is so vital and precious rather than focusing on the outer universe.  I always focus on my inner universe to see if there really is a positive experience and/or positive emotion there.  If there isn't, then I am not going to delude myself.  I would clearly be able to see the truth that my life is empty, I cannot enjoy it, and that there is no real beauty or good value in my life at all.

[Edwardo Piet]

I myself am usually unaware of my emotions because I'm too caught up in the moment. I am sure I'm happy as fuck most of the time but I'm too busy enjoying myself to really think about what I'm actually feeling. I'm extremely present moment. I'm an expert at living in the present. I am sure I am much more enlightened than you are.

I respect your view, but how can this be enlightenment when it would actually be a form of delusion?  If you were not having any real quality of a positive experience and a positive emotion there at all and you claimed that you were just too busy enjoying your life and living in the present, then that would presuppose the existence of a positive experience and/or a positive emotion there. 

What delusion????? I don't have to be meta-aware of an emotion to be aware of an emotion. I don't have to stop and think "I'm happy" to be happy.

Remember, words are irrelevant. I could believe I was miserable but if I'm actually experiencing happiness and enjoyment then I'm happy and enjoying myself.

I in hindsight am aware that I was happy. When I'm enjoying experiencing my happiness I'm too busy enjoying myself to stop and think "Oh wow I'm really happy right now." and, in fact, the moment I have that thought I'm distracted from the present moment and suddenly aren't enjoying myself anymore. It's only when I'm not stopping to reflect on my emotions that I'm enjoying my experience.

Otherwise, you would just be deluding yourself.

Nope! Never heard of the placebo effect? I may be unhappy and falsely believe I'm happy and that causes me to actually feel happy. So initially I am unhappy but my so-called delusion in fact produces happiness.

It's not possible for me to literally be enjoying the present moment and falsely believe I am enjoying myself. You do understand that, yes?

 

I do not see how this is any form of enlightenment at all.  If you were to live by the standard of truth, then you would pay attention to your inner universe which is so vital and precious rather than focusing on the outer universe.

This is why you are very unenlightened. We live our lives in the world of phenomena. The phenomenal world is the only world that is experiencable by definition. The so-called "Outer world" is known in philosophy as the noumenal world and it is un-experiencable by definition. It's not possible for me to focus on the "outer world" and miss out on the inner world. The inner world is all we can experience. When you think you are focusing on the outside world you are actually focusing on your own experience of that world. The actual objective outer world, the noumenal world, is completely shut off to you by definition.

My focusing on the so-called "outer world" and recognizing that I am actually experiencing my own inner phenomenality experienced as what seems to be the so called "outer world" is what allows me to not tangle myself in knots like you do. I enjoy the present moment not by ignoring the inner world but by being able to focus on both worlds at once by realizing it's all one world really. As if there is a real outer world it's not experiencable anyway.

  I always focus on my inner universe to see if there really is a positive experience and/or positive emotion there.

You are wrong to split this up into your inner and outer universe. Your introspection ignores the fact that by enjoying the so-called "outer world" you are actually enjoying your inner world.

  If there isn't, then I am not going to delude myself. 

You already are deluding yourself. If you initally enjoy your phenomenology but delude yourself into thinking you're distracting yourself from your so called "inner world" then all you are doing is limiting your true inner world and failing to enjoy its full capacity at the same time.

[Transcended Dimensions]

I respect your view, but how can this be enlightenment when it would actually be a form of delusion?  If you were not having any real quality of a positive experience and a positive emotion there at all and you claimed that you were just too busy enjoying your life and living in the present, then that would presuppose the existence of a positive experience and/or a positive emotion there. 

What delusion????? I don't have to be meta-aware of an emotion to be aware of an emotion. I don't have to stop and think "I'm happy" to be happy.

Remember, words are irrelevant. I could believe I was miserable but if I'm actually experiencing happiness and enjoyment then I'm happy and enjoying myself.

I in hindsight am aware that I was happy. When I'm enjoying experiencing my happiness I'm too busy enjoying myself to stop and think "Oh wow I'm really happy right now." and, in fact, the moment I have that thought I'm distracted from the present moment and suddenly aren't enjoying myself anymore. It's only when I'm not stopping to reflect on my emotions that I'm enjoying my experience.

Otherwise, you would just be deluding yourself.

Nope! Never heard of the placebo effect? I may be unhappy and falsely believe I'm happy and that causes me to actually feel happy. So initially I am unhappy but my so-called delusion in fact produces happiness.

It's not possible for me to literally be enjoying the present moment and falsely believe I am enjoying myself. You do understand that, yes?

 

I do not see how this is any form of enlightenment at all.  If you were to live by the standard of truth, then you would pay attention to your inner universe which is so vital and precious rather than focusing on the outer universe.

This is why you are very unenlightened. We live our lives in the world of phenomena. The phenomenal world is the only world that is experiencable by definition. The so-called "Outer world" is known in philosophy as the noumenal world and it is un-experiencable by definition. It's not possible for me to focus on the "outer world" and miss out on the inner world. The inner world is all we can experience. When you think you are focusing on the outside world you are actually focusing on your own experience of that world. The actual objective outer world, the noumenal world, is completely shut off to you by definition.

My focusing on the so-called "outer world" and recognizing that I am actually experiencing my own inner phenomenality experienced as what seems to be the so called "outer world" is what allows me to not tangle myself in knots like you do. I enjoy the present moment not by ignoring the inner world but by being able to focus on both worlds at once by realizing it's all one world really. As if there is a real outer world it's not experiencable anyway.

  I always focus on my inner universe to see if there really is a positive experience and/or positive emotion there.

You are wrong to split this up into your inner and outer universe. Your introspection ignores the fact that by enjoying the so-called "outer world" you are actually enjoying your inner world.

  If there isn't, then I am not going to delude myself. 

You already are deluding yourself. If you initally enjoy your phenomenology but delude yourself into thinking you're distracting yourself from your so called "inner world" then all you are doing is limiting your true inner world and failing to enjoy its full capacity at the same time.

During my worst miserable moments, my mind was, in fact, preoccupied with activities.  I had the mindset of enjoying them and that they were of good value/beauty to me.  But there was really no positive experience or positive emotion there at all for me whatsoever.  Therefore, these were just empty words going through my mind.

[Edwardo Piet]

During my worst miserable moments, my mind was, in fact, preoccupied with activities.  I had the mindset of enjoying them and that they were of good value/beauty to me.  But there was really no positive experience or positive emotion there at all for me whatsoever.  Therefore, these were just empty words going through my mind.

What the hell is wrong with you? Damn, and I thought I was robotic. I'm not saying that shit. You respond as if I'm disagreeing with even the parts I don't disagree with.

I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT having the mindset of enjoying something without actually enjoying something. I AGREE that THINKING YOU ENJOY SOMETHING DOES NOT=ENJOYING SOMETHING. I'm saying that I really do enjoy moments. You're a fucking idiot for not addressing the fact that there isn't this 'outer world' and enjoying the so-called 'outer world' is enjoying the inner world.

[Cyberman]

This thread is making me miserable.

Or maybe hungry. I get them mixed up.

[Silver]

This thread is making me miserable.

Or maybe hungry. I get them mixed up.

I was just about to add an update of my own, in regard to how this thread is still going.

[Transcended Dimensions]

During my worst miserable moments, my mind was, in fact, preoccupied with activities.  I had the mindset of enjoying them and that they were of good value/beauty to me.  But there was really no positive experience or positive emotion there at all for me whatsoever.  Therefore, these were just empty words going through my mind.

What the hell is wrong with you? Damn, and I thought I was robotic. I'm not saying that shit. You respond as if I'm disagreeing with even the parts I don't disagree with.

I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT having the mindset of enjoying something without actually enjoying something. I AGREE that THINKING YOU ENJOY SOMETHING DOES NOT=ENJOYING SOMETHING. I'm saying that I really do enjoy moments. You're a fucking idiot for not addressing the fact that there isn't this 'outer world' and enjoying the so-called 'outer world' is enjoying the inner world.

But when you were talking about positive experience being an alternative to positive emotions, this implied to me that positive experience is always something that is there.  In other words, it implied to me that, as long as you have the mindset of enjoying your life, then you would be enjoying your life since your mindset would automatically create that positive experience for you.  That has never happened to me.  I had to always wait for a full recovery before I could finally enjoy my life and have real good value back into my life again.