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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 1:34 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2017 at 1:34 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(October 16, 2017 at 12:44 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Easily the silliest attempt at a bait and switch I've ever seen, Neo.
It doesn't surprise me that you don't see the connections. That is the difference between you and me. I strive for a philosophy that is coherent and consistent. You resort to arguments of convenience to avoid any hint of theism. Personally, I think some atheists know in their heart of hearts that without appeal to transcendent principles all their talk about "being good without God" is just empty rhetoric to hide the latent nihilism inside atheism.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 1:42 pm
Again, if we pretend that the connection isn't an artifact of your imagination....so what?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 1:42 pm
Of course some of us find access to transcendence right there on board, no gods required. So there is that.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 3:10 pm
(October 16, 2017 at 1:42 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Again, if we pretend that the connection isn't an artifact of your imagination....so what?
Then we ignore you for a time and take our message to rational people with open minds and a desire to know the truth.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 3:15 pm
(October 16, 2017 at 3:10 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (October 16, 2017 at 1:42 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Again, if we pretend that the connection isn't an artifact of your imagination....so what?
Then we ignore you for a time and take our message to rational people with open minds and a desire to know the truth.
You are most definitely not a rational person. Having an imaginary friend is not rational.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 3:18 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2017 at 3:20 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So, nothing, then? It seems that the point of deflection was to avoid the dilemma and provide an excuse to throw a tizzy about how you just -know-..that deep down, atheism is nihilism, somehow.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 3:26 pm
(October 16, 2017 at 11:46 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: As for Ignorant's comments, he is correct in so much as one adopts the essentialist position and deny the nominalist one. It means something to be human and to be good is to act in accordance with one's created nature.
So goodness is to do as God says - not as God does. God created us to have a nature better than his own, apparently. So why should we worship a morally inferior being?
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 3:40 pm
(October 16, 2017 at 11:09 am)Khemikal Wrote: @Ignorant
You've completely failed to engage the dilemma, and because of this, could not have resolved it by anything you've said.
Right. Let me be more clear: it is a false dilemma because there is at least one other (non-voluntarist/nominalist) option, viz. mine.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 3:52 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2017 at 3:55 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The trouble, Igno, is that your "third option" can be restated -as- the dilemma. That means that it isn't a third option, it's contained in the two options already presented.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 3:55 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2017 at 3:56 pm by Ignorant.)
(October 16, 2017 at 11:15 am)Whateverist Wrote: But there are many aspects to "acting human", some we call morally good, some bad. [1] If no one else had a hand in our creation then isn't it correct to say that God commands the bad just as he commands the good? [2]
Welcome back by the way. [3]
1) I would say that "morally bad" actions are actions which make us "less human" (i.e. they lead us away from being the best sort of human).
2) Well, I would say that God's "command" that we "be the best sort of humans" is the SAME as his creating us as human. What-humans-are includes this teleology/purpose/goal/end.
God creates us as agents who participate in our own development and fulfillment. The definition of a "good" human agent is a developed and fulfilled human agent (whatever that may consist of). If an action is morally good, it MUST be because it helps us become the best sort of human according to the humanity god creates. Actions are morally good because they lead the agent toward becoming the best sort of human.
3) Thanks! My time is still limited, so I need to try and keep my posts short. It's been too long!
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