Verse 42:23 and how to interpret it, disciplines of interpreting Quran.

[Mystic]

The problem is in using sources other than the Quran.
Sufism is not different than all Islamic sects using other sources.

Using the Quran alone as a source of extracting sentences results in a very different mentality, and a very different "Islam" than what we see today from Sunna, Shia and other sects like Sufies.

I support my choice with the historical atrocities practiced by Sunni and Shiite Muslims; even Suffies. If you follow what these sects are built upon; you will find that they are not following the Quran: you're following a mutant mixture of Quran and Hadith. Any logical idea will clash with the bounds of this mixture; and any ridiculous  thought can find a warm room to grow in with the support of Hadith and sects' books.

Fuck that shit! I have better and more logical texts to base my cognitive tool kit on now.

The Quran is not meant to be approached like any book. It has warnings. It has warning with respect to Satan and his recitation, with respect to locks and knots blown upon by dark forces, and it has warnings with respect to how past revelations were first distorted in meaning and than slowly it's texts changed as well, and it has warnings with respect to relying on other than God, and it has warnings that the unjust will not be increased in it but in injustice, and it has prayers in it that must be pay attention to at the moment and it's relevance to the Surah, and it has a way out of the darkness but most people hate the way that God loves, and it has champions in form of guiding leaders that it manifests their qualities, and shows the consistent way of appointed chosen families in the past and how their authority was taken by people not fit for it, be it people who testify to them or turn them to idols or deny them all together.

And it commands to not make haste with respect to limiting what the Surahs are saying, and giving it time, and to reflect over time, and perhaps in that reflection the easy reminder will become manifest and the easy way to God will become clear, and the clear truths will become manifest, and the connection we all are linked to will become clear.

Peace be upon the family of Taha and Yaseen.

[WinterHold]

Sufis have a lot of truths but to rely on any of their orders is a danger Quran warns against.  You have to rely on those who God appoints, and see through the mystic link the truth of their words and see all the truth in Quran, and the Quran helps you understand the true sayings and the true sayings help you see truth in Quran. "for the Compassionate has informed me they will not separate even when they return to me at my pond".

The whole Quran does not contain the word "Sufi". Sufi was used to describe the early reformers of the cult; troll.
They used to wear "wool" as a sign of "humility". "Wool"="صوف"="Suf". So; Sufi="the person wearing wool".


The Quran did not mention neither from close or from afar the names of your Imams.
Now, it's more than 3 months now:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-51114-p...pid1638839

The question:

AtlasS33 said:

  Answer any of these.
  And no gymnastics or textual walls ! no implicit answers!
  Just give me one verse, across the 600 pages of the Quran that mentions any of the 5 questions' answers.


 
  AtlasS33 said:

  I'll give you many options; all prove your religion if you answer them:
  1- A verse mentioning "Ali" by the name.
  2-A verse mentioning "Hasaen" by the name.
  3-A verse mentioning "Hussain" by the name.
  4-A verse mentioning the 12 divine imams that we must follow
  5-A verse mentioning the last imam that you and your cult believe will rule the universe or whatever -Imam Mahdy-

No answer?
That's what I expected from E-Bacteria.

If you speak about with the Quran; bring the verses instead of posting textual walls. I advice you to answer my 3 month old question, first.

[Mystic]

Pocaracas you ask good questions but you do as if Quran didn't address them in detail and throughout.

Whatever reason is given to any of those questions, it is given because of the patent absence of any divine creature on Earth.

It is clear that only people can pass on the information of god to other people.

What you said is true. There is only one God and his name/face from humans must be what guides humans and God manifests proofs, and there is no divine creature, rather only divinely appointed creatures from the earth in the form of what is termed "humans".

[Brian37]

Fuck that shit! I have better and more logical texts to base my cognitive tool kit on now.

The Quran is not meant to be approached like any book. It has warnings. It has warning with respect to Satan and his recitation, with respect to locks and knots blown upon by dark forces, and it has warnings with respect to how past revelations were first distorted in meaning and than slowly it's texts changed as well, and it has warnings with respect to relying on other than God, and it has warnings that the unjust will not be increased in it but in injustice, and it has prayers in it that must be pay attention to at the moment and it's relevance to the Surah, and it has a way out of the darkness but most people hate the way that God loves, and it has champions in form of guiding leaders that it manifests their qualities, and shows the consistent way of appointed chosen families in the past and how their authority was taken by people not fit for it, be it people who testify to them or turn them to idols or deny them all together.

And it commands to not make haste with respect to limiting what the Surahs are saying, and giving it time, and to reflect over time, and perhaps in that reflection the easy reminder will become manifest and the easy way to God will become clear, and the clear truths will become manifest, and the connection we all are linked to will become clear.

Peace be upon the family of Taha and Yaseen.

This is not what you are getting.

EVERY holy book, holy writing, is MARKETING. 

They are ALL intended to draw the reader in. Just like Coke and Pepsi. Just like Bud Lite Beer vs Miller Lite.

A Christian or Jew or Hindu or Buddhist can make the same argument, "My writing was not intended to."

"My holy book was not meant to" is the same argument.

It works when it suits you and is "misunderstood " when even other sub sects of your own religion don't agree.

[Mystic]

God knows how to draw everyone though, and not lose the interest of even the most profound knower, and so his book, has endless knowledge.

But if we are irrational, we may think there are irrational things in Quran. Can you acknowledge that much?

That if we are irrational, rational things might seem irrational to us?

[chimp3]

Fuck that shit! I have better and more logical texts to base my cognitive tool kit on now.

The Quran is not meant to be approached like any book. It has warnings. It has warning with respect to Satan and his recitation, with respect to locks and knots blown upon by dark forces, and it has warnings with respect to how past revelations were first distorted in meaning and than slowly it's texts changed as well, and it has warnings with respect to relying on other than God, and it has warnings that the unjust will not be increased in it but in injustice, and it has prayers in it that must be pay attention to at the moment and it's relevance to the Surah, and it has a way out of the darkness but most people hate the way that God loves, and it has champions in form of guiding leaders that it manifests their qualities, and shows the consistent way of appointed chosen families in the past and how their authority was taken by people not fit for it, be it people who testify to them or turn them to idols or deny them all together.

And it commands to not make haste with respect to limiting what the Surahs are saying, and giving it time, and to reflect over time, and perhaps in that reflection the easy reminder will become manifest and the easy way to God will become clear, and the clear truths will become manifest, and the connection we all are linked to will become clear.

Peace be upon the family of Taha and Yaseen.

"The Quran is not meant to be approached like any book."

I agree. It deserves a special level of mockery. As does the Christian? Jewish Bible.  Ridiculous!

[Mystic]

The Quran is not meant to be approached like any book. It has warnings. It has warning with respect to Satan and his recitation, with respect to locks and knots blown upon by dark forces, and it has warnings with respect to how past revelations were first distorted in meaning and than slowly it's texts changed as well, and it has warnings with respect to relying on other than God, and it has warnings that the unjust will not be increased in it but in injustice, and it has prayers in it that must be pay attention to at the moment and it's relevance to the Surah, and it has a way out of the darkness but most people hate the way that God loves, and it has champions in form of guiding leaders that it manifests their qualities, and shows the consistent way of appointed chosen families in the past and how their authority was taken by people not fit for it, be it people who testify to them or turn them to idols or deny them all together.

And it commands to not make haste with respect to limiting what the Surahs are saying, and giving it time, and to reflect over time, and perhaps in that reflection the easy reminder will become manifest and the easy way to God will become clear, and the clear truths will become manifest, and the connection we all are linked to will become clear.

Peace be upon the family of Taha and Yaseen.

This is not what you are getting.

EVERY holy book, holy writing, is MARKETING. 

They are ALL intended to draw the reader in. Just like Coke and Pepsi. Just like Bud Lite Beer vs Miller Lite.

A Christian or Jew or Hindu or Buddhist can make the same argument, "My writing was not intended to."

"My holy book was not meant to" is the same argument.

It works when it suits you and is "misunderstood " when even other sub sects of your own religion don't agree.

The people of falsehood and the people of truth will argue, reasoning by truth and reasoning by falsehood will seem the same to ignorant people, and we will remain ignorant until we begin really to reflect ourselves, and we should make notes, like if we learn something, write it down, if not for others at least for yourself.

You can't go with a lazy attitude to understand wisdom. You have to commit with resolve and caution from preferring falsehood over truth, or erring in irrationality or relying on conjecture.

[Brian37]

God knows how to draw everyone though, and not lose the interest of even the most profound knower, and so his book, has endless knowledge.

But if we are irrational, we may think there are irrational things in Quran. Can you acknowledge that much?

That if we are irrational, rational things might seem irrational to us?

HA HA HA HA

Ok, so an "all powerful" God, knows what it takes to get humans on the same page? Yet he does not want to, or cant do that considering all the divisions. 

Nope sorry, I would not hire such an inept deadbeat slacker to run a bicycle factory. The bikes would end up with squid for spokes and the factory workers would murder each other over the competing assembly manuals

[Mystic]

The Quran is not meant to be approached like any book. It has warnings. It has warning with respect to Satan and his recitation, with respect to locks and knots blown upon by dark forces, and it has warnings with respect to how past revelations were first distorted in meaning and than slowly it's texts changed as well, and it has warnings with respect to relying on other than God, and it has warnings that the unjust will not be increased in it but in injustice, and it has prayers in it that must be pay attention to at the moment and it's relevance to the Surah, and it has a way out of the darkness but most people hate the way that God loves, and it has champions in form of guiding leaders that it manifests their qualities, and shows the consistent way of appointed chosen families in the past and how their authority was taken by people not fit for it, be it people who testify to them or turn them to idols or deny them all together.

And it commands to not make haste with respect to limiting what the Surahs are saying, and giving it time, and to reflect over time, and perhaps in that reflection the easy reminder will become manifest and the easy way to God will become clear, and the clear truths will become manifest, and the connection we all are linked to will become clear.

Peace be upon the family of Taha and Yaseen.

"The Quran is not meant to be approached like any book."

I agree. It deserves a special level of mockery. As does the Christian? Jewish Bible.  Ridiculous!

Do you think perhaps Quran showing why people mock it and the Messengers, is perhaps, the reason people mock it?

Do you think the disease of mockery from the dark ones and their minions, and forces, perhaps is the reason.

Do you at least think it might be possible that a spiritual world we are all connected to and tried by with respect to good and evil and is magical in all definitions of magic, is at least possible.

Or are you certain all such thing must be mocked? That a dark laughter cannot be but a disease from the dark enemies of humans, to keep people away from the guidance and the guide, and what the guidance is leading to and connected to?

[WinterHold]

Fuck that shit! I have better and more logical texts to base my cognitive tool kit on now.

The Quran is not meant to be approached like any book. It has warnings. It has warning with respect to Satan and his recitation, with respect to locks and knots blown upon by dark forces, and it has warnings with respect to how past revelations were first distorted in meaning and than slowly it's texts changed as well, and it has warnings with respect to relying on other than God, and it has warnings that the unjust will not be increased in it but in injustice, and it has prayers in it that must be pay attention to at the moment and it's relevance to the Surah, and it has a way out of the darkness but most people hate the way that God loves, and it has champions in form of guiding leaders that it manifests their qualities, and shows the consistent way of appointed chosen families in the past and how their authority was taken by people not fit for it, be it people who testify to them or turn them to idols or deny them all together.

And it commands to not make haste with respect to limiting what the Surahs are saying, and giving it time, and to reflect over time, and perhaps in that reflection the easy reminder will become manifest and the easy way to God will become clear, and the clear truths will become manifest, and the connection we all are linked to will become clear.

Peace be upon the family of Taha and Yaseen.

Enough lies and have some intellectual respect; that if religious respect vanished from your heart!

Sura 35, The Quran:
( 29 )   Indeed, those who recite the Book of Allah and establish prayer and spend [in His cause] out of what We have provided them, secretly and publicly, [can] expect a profit that will never perish -

Why don't you want other people to read the source book? so they don't uncover the filth written by Shiites and Sunnies?
Nothing bad comes from reading; E-bacteria.

Sura 96, The Quran:
( 1 )   Recite in the name of your Lord who created -
( 2 )   Created man from a clinging substance.
( 3 )   Recite, and your Lord is the most Generous -
( 4 )   Who taught by the pen -
( 5 )   Taught man that which he knew not.
( 6 )   No! [But] indeed, man transgresses
( 7 )   Because he sees himself self-sufficient.
( 8 )   Indeed, to your Lord is the return.
( 9 )   Have you seen the one who forbids
( 10 )   A servant when he prays?
( 11 )   Have you seen if he is upon guidance
( 12 )   Or enjoins righteousness?
( 13 )   Have you seen if he denies and turns away -
( 14 )   Does he not know that Allah sees?
( 15 )   No! If he does not desist, We will surely drag him by the forelock -
( 16 )   A lying, sinning forelock.
( 17 )   Then let him call his associates;
( 18 )   We will call the angels of Hell.
( 19 )   No! Do not obey him. But prostrate and draw near [to Allah].

Who the hell are you to keep people away from reading the Quran?
Let them read it, to see that all the crap you post has nothing to do with the source.

Recite and read; people. Don't you ever get fooled by the institution's warnings about reading.