(January 14, 2018 at 3:37 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 14, 2018 at 3:36 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: 1 and 2 is true, but I went into length to support why all humans believe that, and I also reminded of why they are true. In the thread of love in the thread of value and it's sign in ourselves, in many threads, I stated many proofs and dialogued with people to show they are being inconsistent in deny the reasoning that proves all those premises to be true.

Also in the name of God thread, I showed how people were inconsistent with their refutations and had contradicted themselves.

But like Hammy who hates people for believing people are responsible for their beliefs, there is no showing irrational darkness to be what it is when people rely on it for their might and power.

No you did not state evidence, you posted crap you wish were true.

But if I didn't know it was true, it would not give me peace in mind, I would doubt it.

The fact is you have to quiet doubt that doesn't doubt for a reasonable cause.

The first rule of doubting is to know when to stop doubting. This is because there are things that have to be doubted but if you don't know when proofs and reasoning proves something and should no longer be doubted, than the doubt becomes irrational and prevents people from faith and trust in their vision which in the soul is love.

Love sees the truth and judges by truth, not by absolute truth, but by truth, and the absolute truth of who we are, that is known to God alone in the unseen, and that is sufficient as a proof, that is it's sufficient with respect to God that he is a witness with regard to all things, that proves God without doubt.

Just try to listen not only with your mind but by the soul eyes called "love".

(January 14, 2018 at 3:33 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Your Sunni / Shiite squabbles fall on deaf ears . I think your religion is ridiculous.

Muslims make up almost third of the world (31% / 2.2 Billion), most are Sunnies, and many others are Shiite.
I think that you, as a person of the 100% composing humanity, deserve to know an in-depth explanation on what the heck is being carried out by third of your neighbors.

Muslims are not all the same; different sects mean different cultures and different components making up the bigger picture. We're speaking about a third of the world's population here; not 1 or 2 individuals.

(January 14, 2018 at 3:49 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(January 14, 2018 at 3:33 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Your Sunni / Shiite squabbles fall on deaf ears . I think your religion is ridiculous.

Muslims make up almost third of the world (31% / 2.2 Billion), most are Sunnies, and many others are Shiite.
I think that you, as a person of the 100% composing humanity, deserve to know an in-depth explanation on what the heck is being carried out by third of your neighbors.

Muslims are not all the same; different sects mean different cultures and different components making up the bigger picture. We're speaking about a third of the world's population here; not 1 or 2 individuals.

I initiated into a Sufi Order when I was in my 20"s. Then I read the Koran. I had no choice but to leave and call this ridiculous.

Sufis have a lot of truths but to rely on any of their orders is a danger Quran warns against.  You have to rely on those who God appoints, and see through the mystic link the truth of their words and see all the truth in Quran, and the Quran helps you understand the true sayings and the true sayings help you see truth in Quran. "for the Compassionate has informed me they will not separate even when they return to me at my pond".

(January 14, 2018 at 4:01 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Sufis have a lot of truths but to rely on any of their orders is a danger Quran warns against.  You have to rely on those who God appoints, and see through the mystic link the truth of their words and see all the truth in Quran, and the Quran helps you understand the true sayings and the true sayings help you see truth in Quran. "for the Compassionate has informed me they will not separate even when they return to me at my pond".

I do not rely on Sufis, Shiites, or Sunnis now. I do not give a shit about your Koran or it's accompanying texts. It is all ridiculous. Worthy of mockery.

(January 14, 2018 at 3:43 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(January 14, 2018 at 3:37 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No you did not state evidence, you posted crap you wish were true.

But if I didn't know it was true, it would not give me peace in mind, I would doubt it.

The fact is you have to quiet doubt that doesn't doubt for a reasonable cause.

The first rule of doubting is to know when to stop doubting. This is because there are things that have to be doubted but if you don't know when proofs and reasoning proves something and should no longer be doubted, than the doubt becomes irrational and prevents people from faith and trust in their vision which in the soul is love.

Love sees the truth and judges by truth, not by absolute truth, but by truth, and the absolute truth of who we are, that is known to God alone in the unseen, and that is sufficient as a proof, that is it's sufficient with respect to God that he is a witness with regard to all things, that proves God without doubt.

Just try to listen not only with your mind but by the soul eyes called "love".

THAT IS NOT how life works.

Santa gives kids peace of mind.

Jesus gives Christians peace of mind.

Clown makeup gave Serial  Killer John Wayne Gacy peace of mind.

WE GET that you like what you believe.

WE GET that you really want it to be true.

BUT that has nothing to do one bit with reality. It just means you like what you believe.

(January 14, 2018 at 3:56 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(January 14, 2018 at 3:49 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Muslims make up almost third of the world (31% / 2.2 Billion), most are Sunnies, and many others are Shiite.
I think that you, as a person of the 100% composing humanity, deserve to know an in-depth explanation on what the heck is being carried out by third of your neighbors.

Muslims are not all the same; different sects mean different cultures and different components making up the bigger picture. We're speaking about a third of the world's population here; not 1 or 2 individuals.

I initiated into a Sufi Order when I was in my 20"s. Then I read the Koran. I had no choice but to leave and call this ridiculous.

The problem is in using sources other than the Quran.
Sufism is not different than all Islamic sects using other sources.

Using the Quran alone as a source of extracting sentences results in a very different mentality, and a very different "Islam" than what we see today from Sunna, Shia and other sects like Sufies.

I support my choice with the historical atrocities practiced by Sunni and Shiite Muslims; even Suffies. If you follow what these sects are built upon; you will find that they are not following the Quran: you're following a mutant mixture of Quran and Hadith. Any logical idea will clash with the bounds of this mixture; and any ridiculous  thought can find a warm room to grow in with the support of Hadith and sects' books.

You shouldn't rely on Sunnis, Sufis, or Shiites. You should find the reminder and the leaders who are with him, that is his family, be it predecessors or successors, and should find the consistent way of God with that respect, and uncover the truth of the way of God and his path of guidance.

And if you don't believe in God, your best luck of proofs of God is by God himself, so find his Messenger he has sent, whether he is alive or in the past, and find the guide of time and the connection, be he in China or somewhere else, or hidden or unknown or manifest and apparent, you have to find the guidance and the guidance of God being the guidance towards God is your best bet if God exists.

And if God really wants to guide us, he must left truth everywhere and all cultures must have some sort proof of God they inherited from revelations and pondering over them, though it be mixed with falsehood there religion, they will only attract by the truth they emphasize on.

Search, and if you don't find, what was a better way to live then trying to finding the ultimate beauty and greatest being, and trying to find the guidance he has sent to recognize him.

I am sure if you don't find God if you searched, he will forgive you and reward you in the next world for the loving effort and resolve, and patience to find.

But I place my bets you will easily find if you strive.

---

(January 14, 2018 at 4:10 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 14, 2018 at 3:43 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: But if I didn't know it was true, it would not give me peace in mind, I would doubt it.

The fact is you have to quiet doubt that doesn't doubt for a reasonable cause.

The first rule of doubting is to know when to stop doubting. This is because there are things that have to be doubted but if you don't know when proofs and reasoning proves something and should no longer be doubted, than the doubt becomes irrational and prevents people from faith and trust in their vision which in the soul is love.

Love sees the truth and judges by truth, not by absolute truth, but by truth, and the absolute truth of who we are, that is known to God alone in the unseen, and that is sufficient as a proof, that is it's sufficient with respect to God that he is a witness with regard to all things, that proves God without doubt.

Just try to listen not only with your mind but by the soul eyes called "love".

THAT IS NOT how life works.

Santa gives kids peace of mind.

Jesus gives Christians peace of mind.

Clown makeup gave Cereal Killer John Wayne Gacy peace of mind.

WE GET that you like what you believe.

WE GET that you really want it to be true.

BUT that has nothing to do one bit with reality. It just means you like what you believe.

If you don't what you hold most dear to believe is true, your heart will out of love be in turmoil, and deceiving yourself with respect to knowing God will leave oneself in turmoil.

I am certain of God's existence, there is no room for doubt. And I have presented so much proofs because it's easy now, reasoning, vision of God with respect to the many angles we know we are connected to him, has become easy.

It's like denying the Sun, I can't. Even if the proof of God is hidden behind the clouds, I see the light and know the sun is there clearly.  We are connected and nothing you say can disconnect me now.

(January 14, 2018 at 4:11 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(January 14, 2018 at 3:56 pm)chimp3 Wrote: I initiated into a Sufi Order when I was in my 20"s. Then I read the Koran. I had no choice but to leave and call this ridiculous.

The problem is in using sources other than the Quran.
Sufism is not different than all Islamic sects using other sources.

Using the Quran alone as a source of extracting sentences results in a very different mentality, and a very different "Islam" than what we see today from Sunna, Shia and other sects like Sufies.

I support my choice with the historical atrocities practiced by Sunni and Shiite Muslims; even Suffies. If you follow what these sects are built upon; you will find that they are not following the Quran: you're following a mutant mixture of Quran and Hadith. Any logical idea will clash with the bounds of this mixture; and any ridiculous  thought can find a warm room to grow in with the support of Hadith and sects' books.

Fuck that shit! I have better and more logical texts to base my cognitive tool kit on now.

(January 14, 2018 at 4:11 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(January 14, 2018 at 3:56 pm)chimp3 Wrote: I initiated into a Sufi Order when I was in my 20"s. Then I read the Koran. I had no choice but to leave and call this ridiculous.

The problem is in using sources other than the Quran.
Sufism is not different than all Islamic sects using other sources.

Using the Quran alone as a source of extracting sentences results in a very different mentality, and a very different "Islam" than what we see today from Sunna, Shia and other sects like Sufies.

I support my choice with the historical atrocities practiced by Sunni and Shiite Muslims; even Suffies. If you follow what these sects are built upon; you will find that they are not following the Quran: you're following a mutant mixture of Quran and Hadith. Any logical idea will clash with the bounds of this mixture; and any ridiculous  thought can find a warm room to grow in with the support of Hadith and sects' books.

I will accept that between the two of you you are the "good cop" Muslim, and while MK is not a member of ISIS his bent is more "bad cop".

BUT,  both of you are at the same time NOT getting it.

You are BOTH arguing the writings of antiquity just like Baptists and Catholics whom are both Christian. 

I am the outsider looking at both of you saying, "THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW".