Human beings have virtually no value if they are just machines

[Banned]

Well, even if we count the wonderful graces in life, according to the god of fertilizer, they will amount to nothing in the end, so where do you find reward or justice in that?

A better question is why do you think that you need/deserve a special reward or justice in the end? More than other humans? For me life is/was/will be reward enough. Any justice that I received I received from society, not from a man made fantasy delusion.

I never said or thought about a special reward for me, they're your words. 
If you conceive yourself as no better than a bag of fertilizer that's your right.

---

Want to answer my question now?

You asked a couple of questions, please repeat the one in mind.

[Brian37]

If i'm an illusion and my thoughts and feelings are illusion . I'm still illusion with thoughts and feelings so why would i care either way . As for the sun outlasting yup it will and good thing too . As for not being remembered all the people i care about will likely remember so who else matters ?

Oh no, we are not an illusion, the idea that we need a sky hero was the "illusion" I was talking about. Good can be real, and empathy too, and that is part of our species behavior. The illusion is most humans chalk it up to their own perspective clubs instead of seeing our good as being in our genes. Even the more watered down illusion of reincarnation is also that.

The illusion I am talking about is that humans mostly get sold at birth the religion of their parents, so it is hard to see for most, the bigger picture that we are not different, or special, but we certainly are fragile and finite. I think the more humans consider that we are fragile and finite, the more care we would take not to physically harm each other.

[Banned]

The Illusion, By Brian37 

From the onset 
From the first breath 
The sickle chases us 
To a variety of death 

We fight in futility 
This final reality 
With vacuous labels 
Of class and status 

Since atoms decay 
To our dismay 
The futile efforts 
We display 

Our masks have names 
In race and religion 
Of power and wealth 
And national origin 

And in our history 
None have escaped 
The finite reality 
All will face 

The illusion enticing 
The peacock strut 
With fanciful feathers 
Attracting others 

Plumes of falsehood 
Empty promises 
And hollow threats 
Divide humanity 

Trapped we are 
By this illusion 
Painfully obvious 
Is our imagination 

A way out 
Will never be 
No mater what lie 
We believe 

From the fame 
To the farmer 
To the Pope 
To the president 

All who are ,all who were 
And all who will ever be 
Will be swallowed by time 
And obscurity 

The cosmos 
Is cold 
Uncaring 
And not cognitive 

Please spare me 
From your accusation 
Of negativity 
Born from credulity 

Nay be I fatalistic 
Or pessimistic 
Merely from facing 
Reality 

Are there wonders 
And happiness 
To be found 
Here and now? 

A resounding yes 
I too shout 
YES, YES YES 
I have no choice 

A kitten's purr 
A loved one's hug 
I value too 
Without myth making 

The illusion must die 
For the mind to survive 
The sickle the victor 
And will always win 

It reaps our bodies 
And our stories 
Laughing at petty attempts 
To outlast it's dark robe 

Facing the finite 
Is solitude 
Incantations 
Are pale placebos 

We dress 
Dress and redress 
Our flavors 
Hoping the ice cream wont melt 

It does 
It will 
It is 
Our finality
(end)

Don't feel bad Star, most humans buy some sort of "forever" and don't think we are being mean trying to state the reality there is no such thing.

I love the poetic mind - quite rare sometimes.
thankyou

[Amarok]

If i'm an illusion and my thoughts and feelings are illusion . I'm still illusion with thoughts and feelings so why would i care either way . As for the sun outlasting yup it will and good thing too . As for not being remembered all the people i care about will likely remember so who else matters ?

Oh no, we are not an illusion, the idea that we need a sky hero was the "illusion" I was talking about. Good can be real, and empathy too, and that is part of our species behavior. The illusion is most humans chalk it up to their own perspective clubs instead of seeing our good as being in our genes. Even the more watered down illusion of reincarnation is also that.

The illusion I am talking about is that humans mostly get sold at birth the religion of their parents, so it is hard to see for most, the bigger picture that we are not different, or special, but we certainly are fragile and finite. I think the more humans consider that we are fragile and finite, the more care we would take not to physically harm each other.

I'm simply saying even if it were the case the relevance is minor .

[Cyberman]

Want to answer my question now?

You asked a couple of questions, please repeat the one in mind.

Your scroll wheel broke?

[Brian37]

The Illusion, By Brian37 

From the onset 
From the first breath 
The sickle chases us 
To a variety of death 

We fight in futility 
This final reality 
With vacuous labels 
Of class and status 

Since atoms decay 
To our dismay 
The futile efforts 
We display 

Our masks have names 
In race and religion 
Of power and wealth 
And national origin 

And in our history 
None have escaped 
The finite reality 
All will face 

The illusion enticing 
The peacock strut 
With fanciful feathers 
Attracting others 

Plumes of falsehood 
Empty promises 
And hollow threats 
Divide humanity 

Trapped we are 
By this illusion 
Painfully obvious 
Is our imagination 

A way out 
Will never be 
No mater what lie 
We believe 

From the fame 
To the farmer 
To the Pope 
To the president 

All who are ,all who were 
And all who will ever be 
Will be swallowed by time 
And obscurity 

The cosmos 
Is cold 
Uncaring 
And not cognitive 

Please spare me 
From your accusation 
Of negativity 
Born from credulity 

Nay be I fatalistic 
Or pessimistic 
Merely from facing 
Reality 

Are there wonders 
And happiness 
To be found 
Here and now? 

A resounding yes 
I too shout 
YES, YES YES 
I have no choice 

A kitten's purr 
A loved one's hug 
I value too 
Without myth making 

The illusion must die 
For the mind to survive 
The sickle the victor 
And will always win 

It reaps our bodies 
And our stories 
Laughing at petty attempts 
To outlast it's dark robe 

Facing the finite 
Is solitude 
Incantations 
Are pale placebos 

We dress 
Dress and redress 
Our flavors 
Hoping the ice cream wont melt 

It does 
It will 
It is 
Our finality
(end)

Don't feel bad Star, most humans buy some sort of "forever" and don't think we are being mean trying to state the reality there is no such thing.

I love the poetic mind - quite rare sometimes.
thankyou

Thanks, and I do mean that, but do me one favor, please ditch the idea that "godless" means " lawless" or " we are just machines".

You might go your entire life with some sort of God belief, and my late mother did too. But please, don't argue that scientists or atheists for that matter are claiming we should all act like Spock 100% of our waking lives. 

All we are trying to argue is you may think you need a God, we think you do not need one.

Oh and just so you know, the poem is NOT advocating suicide. All it is arguing is once you give up on the fear of punishment in a fictional afterlife you free yourself up to be less stressed out over an imperfect world.

[Banned]

I love the poetic mind - quite rare sometimes.
thankyou

Thanks, and I do mean that, but do me one favor, please ditch the idea that "godless" means " lawless" or " we are just machines".

...the poem is NOT advocating suicide. All it is arguing is once you give up on the fear of punishment in a fictional afterlife you free yourself up to be less stressed out over an imperfect world.

Yep, it's an expression...word art...

---

How do you know it's the source of life, and that there's a rope?

I wish you guys would show that there's a 'there' there, before expecting us to run full tilt at it. Just one time.

I have never thought otherwise, and never felt otherwise, so I don't know what I would look for, that isn't already very apparent to me.

[Brian37]

Thanks, and I do mean that, but do me one favor, please ditch the idea that "godless" means " lawless" or " we are just machines".

...the poem is NOT advocating suicide. All it is arguing is once you give up on the fear of punishment in a fictional afterlife you free yourself up to be less stressed out over an imperfect world.

Yep, it's an expression...word art...

---

How do you know it's the source of life, and that there's a rope?

I wish you guys would show that there's a 'there' there, before expecting us to run full tilt at it. Just one time.

I have never thought otherwise, and never felt otherwise, so I don't know what I would look for, that isn't already very apparent to me.

"Apparent" is the key, and science has proven that our species perceptions of reality are notoriously flawed.

We don't doubt you truly believe your position, you are not the first theist we have ever debated. What we do doubt is your perception of reality.

[Banned]

Then the thread is right, we are no better than a biological machination.

Why?

Also, biology doesn't do machinations.

I accept for arguments sake that biology is free of purposeful action.

Which puts biology about on the same level as a machine doesn't it?

---

I have never thought otherwise, and never felt otherwise, so I don't know what I would look for, that isn't already very apparent to me.

"Apparent" is the key, and science has proven that our species perceptions of reality are notoriously flawed.

We don't doubt you truly believe your position, you are not the first theist we have ever debated. What we do doubt is your perception of reality.

Fair enough.

[brewer]

A better question is why do you think that you need/deserve a special reward or justice in the end? More than other humans? For me life is/was/will be reward enough. Any justice that I received I received from society, not from a man made fantasy delusion.

I never said or thought about a special reward for me, they're your words. 
If you conceive yourself as no better than a bag of fertilizer that's your right

Reward and justice are/were your words, (take a look back at your posts), along with it's "Source" (have to assume this is god, but lets see if you acknowledge or squirm).

And the fantasy conception is yours. Not originally, but it seems you sure bought into it.