My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?)

[bennyboy]

No, that is not why the Earth is said to be 4.5 billion years old. It is said to be that old based on radiometric dating of earth, meteor, and lunar samples. Fossils are originally dated from the age of the minerals in which they are embedded. If similar fossils are found in other areas, then this is used as a quick way to date minerals in those areas.

If you think that's how scientists arrived at an age for the Earth, then I'd humbly suggest that your academic sources are probably mainly religious rather than scientific. It sounds like the kind of thing a pastor would tell to churchgoers to make them think scientists are dumb, rather than something scientists have ever said.

[Whateverist]

bold mine

I'm not sure it's just/only lazy. I think that for most it fills or helps them with an emotional need. The biggest one that comes to mind is fear.

But Genesis tells us how God made it. It doesn't go into the technical details of "how" He did it, but it tells us the order in which He made everything. It's not like we just made it up. It's just a matter of whether we believe the account or not. So how God did it, is beyond our understanding in a certain sense. The fact that He said, "Let there be light," and there was light, has to be accepted (for a believer, that is). We don't know how God could do that. God is beyond our understanding.

Nice to see that you recognize that "god did it" doesn't at all explain how anything came to be.  It is equivalent to saying "everything came about as a result of factor X, about which we know nothing".  Of course you do have a book which you arbitrarily accept as authoritative but, to your credit, you recognize that nothing in it actually tells you "how" god did anything .. just a few stray references to the order in which they happened.

At least where other xtians will say "hah, you atheists don't have answers to the big questions", you are someone who would pipe up to say "well, actually we don't either".  Welcome to a forum where you can say what you think.

[Dan Brooks]

Humans are creators and are intelligent. We are also narcissistic. We can not understand how everything came to be without someone like us. Hence, we create gods like ourselves. Primates in the sky!

I think this is a really good point. I hadn't thought of it this way before.

I used to say, "In the beginning, God made man in His own image. In the end, man made God in his own image." 
Yes, people have and do create gods in their image and likeness. This happens all the time. They can't deal with a God they can't relate to, so they make one that they can relate to. 
There's an interesting story in the book of Jasher about what Abram did to his father Terah's gods. He asked him who it was that made mankind and the heavens and the earth, and his father took him to a room filled with idols and said, "These are they which made us, and everything there is." So one day when Terah wasn't around, Abram went in there with a meal to offer to them, and he saw that none of them reached out to take the meal. So he took a hatchet and broke them all except for the largest one, and put the hatchet into the hands of the largest one, and left.
Later on, Terah went into the room and saw all his gods destroyed except the large one with the hatchet in it, and he said to Abram, "What have you done?" And Abram said, "I did nothing. The large god took the hatchet and destroyed all the smaller gods." And Terah said to him," Why do you lie? Do gods of stone and wood, which I have made myself, have any power or spirit in them to move about and do such things?" And Abram answered, "Why then do you serve them, seeing that they have no power or spirit in them. How can they protect you or provide for you?"
So yes, people do make gods to relate to. And those gods are fake. They have no power to do anything. Like the Bible says, "Eyes have they, but they see not. Ears have they, but they hear not. Mouths have they, but they speak not. Hands have they but they handle not. And those that make them are like unto them."
Let's say someone you know made a figurine in your likeness, and put it in the main room of their house. You may be quite flattered at first. But they didn't stop there. They not only made the figurine, but they spoke to it every day and had imaginary conversations with it, as if it were really you. You would probably think they had gone mad. But after a while, you would not only think that, but you would probably start getting upset and wonder why they are acting as though the figurine is actually you, and ignoring the real you. 
The figurine isn't alive, and can't do anything, and is obviously a very poor substitute for the real you. But the fact that there is a lifeless figurine of you doesn't relegate the real you into nonexistence. You still exist, and you're much better than the stupid figurine of you that just sits there doing nothing. 
So also does the fact that people make up lifeless gods that do nothing relegate the real God into nonexistence. That is, the fact that there are false gods is not evidence that there isn't a real God.

[Whateverist]

. . . except these aren't a different species.  They're both dogs.

Yes, they are reproducing within their own kind.

Care to share your definition of "kind"? Taxonomists now rely more heavily on DNA analysis than on morphology.

[Dan Brooks]

No, that is not why the Earth is said to be 4.5 billion years old.  It is said to be that old based on radiometric dating of earth, meteor, and lunar samples.  Fossils are originally dated from the age of the minerals in which they are embedded.  If similar fossils are found in other areas, then this is used as a quick way to date minerals in those areas.

If you think that's how scientists arrived at an age for the Earth, then I'd humbly suggest that your academic sources are probably mainly religious rather than scientific.  It sounds like the kind of thing a pastor would tell to churchgoers to make them think scientists are dumb, rather than something scientists have ever said.

I don't think scientists are dumb. But I did hear that somewhere. Not sure where. I haven't gone to church in over ten years. Maybe I heard it when I was a kid.  I've heard a few times that evolution has to take such a long time to occur, that the earth has to be that old in order for the evolution to take place.  If I'm wrong about that, then I apologize.
But if evolution doesn't take that long to occur, then why isn't there so much more evidence of it? Not only in observation, but in paleontological finds and archaeological finds, etc?

---

Yes, they are reproducing within their own kind.

Care to share your definition of "kind"?  Taxonomists now rely more heavily on DNA analysis than on morphology.

As in, "They're both dogs". He said that they're both dogs, so that's what I meant. Like wolves and dogs are same kind. Horses and donkeys are the same kind, because they can mate and make mules. I don't have a technical definition of it. I could find one, but I was just agreeing with the fact that he said that they were both dogs. There is an extreme amount of variety within dogs, but they're all still dogs. Dogs can't mate with cats, etc. So that's what I mean by kind.

[Cyberman]

I live in shoebox in t'middle o' road.

"So, you have a shoebox...?" 

The correct response is:

"Cardboard box? You were lucky!"

[Dan Brooks]

Yes, they are reproducing within their own kind.

Care to share your definition of "kind"?  Taxonomists now rely more heavily on DNA analysis than on morphology.

In regard to your signature, I've seen that type of faith in pretty much all belief systems, including atheism. It's the nature of a belief system. Once you believe you found your keys, you stop looking for them.

[chimp3]

I think this is a really good point. I hadn't thought of it this way before.

I used to say, "In the beginning, God made man in His own image. In the end, man made God in his own image." 
Yes, people have and do create gods in their image and likeness. This happens all the time. They can't deal with a God they can't relate to, so they make one that they can relate to. 
There's an interesting story in the book of Jasher about what Abram did to his father Terah's gods. He asked him who it was that made mankind and the heavens and the earth, and his father took him to a room filled with idols and said, "These are they which made us, and everything there is." So one day when Terah wasn't around, Abram went in there with a meal to offer to them, and he saw that none of them reached out to take the meal. So he took a hatchet and broke them all except for the largest one, and put the hatchet into the hands of the largest one, and left.
Later on, Terah went into the room and saw all his gods destroyed except the large one with the hatchet in it, and he said to Abram, "What have you done?" And Abram said, "I did nothing. The large god took the hatchet and destroyed all the smaller gods." And Terah said to him," Why do you lie? Do gods of stone and wood, which I have made myself, have any power or spirit in them to move about and do such things?" And Abram answered, "Why then do you serve them, seeing that they have no power or spirit in them. How can they protect you or provide for you?"
So yes, people do make gods to relate to. And those gods are fake. They have no power to do anything. Like the Bible says, "Eyes have they, but they see not. Ears have they, but they hear not. Mouths have they, but they speak not. Hands have they but they handle not. And those that make them are like unto them."
Let's say someone you know made a figurine in your likeness, and put it in the main room of their house. You may be quite flattered at first. But they didn't stop there. They not only made the figurine, but they spoke to it every day and had imaginary conversations with it, as if it were really you. You would probably think they had gone mad. But after a while, you would not only think that, but you would probably start getting upset and wonder why they are acting as though the figurine is actually you, and ignoring the real you. 
The figurine isn't alive, and can't do anything, and is obviously a very poor substitute for the real you. But the fact that there is a lifeless figurine of you doesn't relegate the real you into nonexistence. You still exist, and you're much better than the stupid figurine of you that just sits there doing nothing. 
So also does the fact that people make up lifeless gods that do nothing relegate the real God into nonexistence. That is, the fact that there are false gods is not evidence that there isn't a real God.

Your god is most certainly man made. Evidence : There is no knowledge in the bible attributed to god that a bronze aged man could not have known or imagined. What is amusing is that otherwise intelligent people are repeating this magician in the sky nonsense as if it holds up under minimal scrutiny. Cure for tuberculosis? Birds blood spread by the flapping wings of a live bird. Cures for other diseases? Incantations and gesticulations. Get real!

[LastPoet]

Care to share your definition of "kind"?  Taxonomists now rely more heavily on DNA analysis than on morphology.

In regard to your signature, I've seen that type of faith in pretty much all belief systems, including atheism. It's the nature of a belief system. Once you believe you found your keys, you stop looking for them.

The problem that you have with this is that you are conflating atheism with science. I was an atheist long before science is known to me. You and your Ilk pretend to know something you have no evidence of, and pretend its the only viable explanation. The purest of the arguments out of ignorance.

While I accept that you believe in magic, is it your right to impose that unto others?

Please look at evolution and its evidence, but I am afraid you are just a weak minded coward, unable to challenge your own beliefs. A weak mind, unable to read more than 1 single book.

'Kind' is the word of them ignorant. I advise you to keep on christian forums. they will applaud you and boost your ego. Here? we heard this bullshit and have refuted it a milion times before. Pearls to the swine, but there might be some critical minds lurking and reading what we say-

You are not here tosay anything, just replay what your preacher said to you, sheep.

[brewer]

..... and Dan goes off the rails.

Thanks Dan, that was entertaining.