Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?

[Astreja]

Exactly, Cyberman. Under normal circumstances, people are arrested for the crime of uttering threats. Add religion and all of a sudden they can get away with it, sowing seeds of fear for the express purpose of dealing with disagreement.

I have a zero-tolerance stance towards people who play the hellfire card. IMO it should be a crime because of the marks it makes on the psyches of some unfortunate individuals, and I treat the threat-uttering individuals as if they would personally harm people, given the opportunity to do so.

[Ravenshire]

You know, MK, I don't think there a single person here who gives even a single fuck whether you believe we're hell-bound or not. You're belief in myths based on some moldering tome of "ancient knowledge" mean absolutely dick around here.

[WinterHold]

In other words, because I don't believe you  when you say that you have the truth, your imaginary friend has the right to torture me for eternity?

You disgust me.  Fuck you and fuck your god.

That's the rancid heart of the issue laid open, isn't it? If I told MK that my opinion of him, in the context of my inability to persuade him of a thing, is that he deserves to burn and writhe and scream for all eternity, he would think I was an evil person for considering him lesser than me. And so would I. Yet add a teaspoon of religion into the recipe and suddenly it's fine?

Religion really does poison everything, left unchecked.

Hell is a matter of judgement which belongs to God; not MK or his clan of Shiites.

Actually; it's an insult beyond limit to involve yourself in the matters of God; it gives a nice picture for how theists and their institutions and their missionaries -like MK- are disgusting in many cases, and believe that God is them; and they are God.

Hell belongs to God, and nobody has the right to sit arrogantly on a judgmental chair, as a judge came from heaven on peoples' fates.
Maybe I, myself, am a guest of hell. Maybe MK also is a guest of hell. Didn't the Quran say:

Sura 19,The Quran:
( 68 )   So by your Lord, We will surely gather them and the devils; then We will bring them to be present around Hell upon their knees.
( 69 )   Then We will surely extract from every sect those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence.
( 70 )   Then, surely it is We who are most knowing of those most worthy of burning therein.
( 71 )   And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed.
( 72 )   Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.
( 73 )   And when Our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, those who disbelieve say to those who believe, "Which of [our] two parties is best in position and best in association?"

Everybody will bow in hell. Me included. Prophet Mohammed included. MK and his 12 Imams included.
You included. Astreja included.
That moment; only God will judge. Neither me nor the disgusting theistic institution.

Sura 40, The Quran:
( 17 )   This Day every soul will be recompensed for what it earned. No injustice today! Indeed, Allah is swift in account.
( 18 )   And warn them, [O Muhammad], of the Approaching Day, when hearts are at the throats, filled [with distress]. For the wrongdoers there will be no devoted friend and no intercessor [who is] obeyed.
( 19 )   He knows that which deceives the eyes and what the breasts conceal.
( 20 )   And Allah judges with truth, while those they invoke besides Him judge not with anything. Indeed, Allah - He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

Though; will of control can show us how far a person can sell their dignity, belief and holy book to gain few followers or a price so low, the arrogance exposes that missionary though. Everybody will bow in hell according to the Quran; whoever claims that he holds the keys to salvation from that situation, is selling you a very disgusting sectarian propaganda. Personally; there is no salvation but in the same book that contained this belief and its God; not with a crappy Shiite institution, or a Catholic one, or an Ottoman one.
So...
( 71 )   And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed.
( 72 )   Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.

Looks like MK is not from the wrongdoers? he is so sure? how arrogant? how disgusting?
Even though he said in his OP:

MysticKnight said:

I believe most humans are dishonest with themselves, I believe to a great degree I deceive myself as well.

Self contradictory, hypocritical piece of... sorry

[Astreja]

Everybody will bow in hell. Me included. Prophet Mohammed included. MK and his 12 Imams included.
You included. Astreja included.

Not going to happen.  Ever.  Not in any iteration of this universe.

I hereby stake all that I have, all that I am, and all that I shall ever be on the proposition that hell has always been just a myth, and that no one will ever bow there.

May the universe deal appropriately, justly and swiftly with all people who persist in teaching the myth of hell to others, so that humanity can one day be rid of it.

[WinterHold]

Everybody will bow in hell. Me included. Prophet Mohammed included. MK and his 12 Imams included.
You included. Astreja included.

Not going to happen.  Ever.  Not in any iteration of this universe.

I hereby stake all that I have, all that I am, and all that I shall ever be on the proposition that hell has always been just a myth, and that no one will ever bow there.

May the universe deal appropriately, justly and swiftly with all people who persist in teaching the myth of hell to others, so that humanity can one day be rid of it.

But in this life, we are all equal. The belief of Islam is that nobody is better than the other, a believer can disbelief in a matter of hours, the perspective of God on the other hand is different, and not ours -Muslims/Believers- to intervene in.
Who appointed us theists and Muslims as sinless people? based on the above verses, we shouldn't judge, ever. Judging is the beginning of the fall; one that Muslim sects met and saw; to the degree that even their food in this age is imported from the outside.. funny to see a Shiite or a Sunni, who is an addict to the food of "the people who see as Kuffar"; like KFC..it's hilarious.

We can believe in the existence of such place though; or don't believe. Our whole life is there for us to believe or disbelieve; they say the light of stars  we are seeing is transferring an old image of the object, so it will always be there for us to see; even if it was a mere image. The universe always deals appropriately, to strange levels. So strange they make me wonder.

[shadow]

People who don't care whether the theists thinks we are going to hell:

I don't care either. I'm very certain that the afterlife is a myth. But, I think it's an important conversation to have, because we know so many theists who are our friends and family who may very well think we are going to hell, or try to avoid thinking about it. This came up a month ago in my family when my cousin, an atheist, died quite young. Everyone was very sad, but there was this awkward tension in that the Catholics in our family knew that he was an atheist... did they think he was going to hell? That's a troublesome thought, and not one that you want to discuss with your grieving family.

So for me it's actually important to understand if and how religious people can rationalize atheists not burning in hell, and it's a lot easier on an internet forum than with the people we love at a time of grieving (which is the only time it's really been relevant in my life). It's a more objective, and less personal, place to have that discussion.

[Catholic_Lady]

I think you may have misunderstood. I believe that God is love and goodness, and so where those things are present God is present also. If you accept love and goodness, if you strive to live by the values of honesty, truth, generosity, humility, kindness, etc, to the best of your understanding of those things, you are unknowingly accepting God into your heart, and He is present there, imho. I am by no means saying that people who are religious or Catholic are all good people.

You're quite secular for a Catholic, CL

I really don't know how you can get that where ever there is "love and goodness", there is god. God is supposed to be everywhere, right? Including all awful places, and allowing all awful things to occur. Once again, your conception of god is not your understanding of morality.

If, in your view, a good portion of the Catholics aren't moral and therefore aren't going to heaven, and a good portion of the atheists and members of other religions are moral and are going to heaven, there is no correlation between heaven and religion. So what, then, is the role of the Catholic Church?

Lol the notion that God is love is a Christian thing, not a secular thing. 😉

It seems you're running with what I said a bit too much. Yes, it is my personal opinion that being sincerely mistaken about the existance of God won't get someone damned, in and of itself. Though again, this is merely my opinion as I assume the best of people, and just based on what makes logical sense to me. At the end of the day, it isn't my judgement to make, and I would rather people not take my word for it. I'm not claiming it as some sort of revealed truth.

As for why the Church exists if I think it's possible people can go to Heaven without being Catholic? This is a strange question to me, tbh. If I believe the faith is true, then of course I think it's important. Truth is important. Just because a person may be honestly mistaken about it without getting damned (imho), doesn't mean it isn't important.

---

Eh, don't know about you. You're one of the mean ones around here. Probably 30% chance for you. Now little Succie on the other hand.....

I'm next! I'm next! Where am I gonna end up? 

As you know Joods, you're an awful person. Truly mean. And a bad friend. 98% chance of Hell for you.

---

People who don't care whether the theists thinks we are going to hell:

I don't care either. I'm very certain that the afterlife is a myth. But, I think it's an important conversation to have, because we know so many theists who are our friends and family who may very well think we are going to hell, or try to avoid thinking about it. This came up a month ago in my family when my cousin, an atheist, died quite young. Everyone was very sad, but there was this awkward tension in that the Catholics in our family knew that he was an atheist... did they think he was going to hell? That's a troublesome thought, and not one that you want to discuss with your grieving family.

So for me it's actually important to understand if and how religious people can rationalize atheists not burning in hell, and it's a lot easier on an internet forum than with the people we love at a time of grieving (which is the only time it's really been relevant in my life). It's a more objective, and less personal, place to have that discussion.

You should ask them. You may be pleasantly surprised by the answer.

I think at best they would say no, at worst they would say it's not their judgement to make.

[WinterHold]

You're quite secular for a Catholic, CL

I really don't know how you can get that where ever there is "love and goodness", there is god. God is supposed to be everywhere, right? Including all awful places, and allowing all awful things to occur. Once again, your conception of god is not your understanding of morality.

If, in your view, a good portion of the Catholics aren't moral and therefore aren't going to heaven, and a good portion of the atheists and members of other religions are moral and are going to heaven, there is no correlation between heaven and religion. So what, then, is the role of the Catholic Church?

Lol the notion that God is love is a Christian thing, not a secular thing. 😉

I need to cite a thing:
The Catholic Church never said that "God is love" until the angry masses in Europe have cut its wings; led by secular philosophers. It was a massacre for priests who terrorized the local populations for decades for the sake of kings.
Not forgetting the terrorizing of foreign countries by issuing "Christian Jihadi Fatwas to issue the Crusades". Which involved crimes such as...cannibalism and mass murder.
The concept of "Love" and the way it became involved in the policies of the world, is a secular trademark; see here:
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Denis_Diderot

It has been said that love robs those who have it of their wit, and gives it to those who have none. -Denis Diderot

Secular Philosophers like Diderot made the "love thing" viral. The Church on the other hand, got it's wings cut and its former glory crushed by the illumination waves, until it forcefully carried the notion to survive.

As a side note; the same experience is taking place in Arabia now with Islamic sects being attacked. But with Arabs, the religious suck, the secular suck, everything suck.

[Mister Agenda]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: 

Any human who when the truth is presented and has a way out of the darkness and perceives it but denies it after God's proof is settled, then yes, they belong to hell.

Since you have stated that you believe we all perceive the truth of your many amazing 'arguments' and deny it; the short (and honest) answer would be that you expect all the atheists who have read your super-convincing 'proofs', which we all were secretly convinced by, to go to hell. The only thing that can save an atheist from hell, apparently, is to agree with MK or never know him.

Just think how many atheists would be saved from hell if you never posted here again, MK.

[GrandizerII]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: 

Any human who when the truth is presented and has a way out of the darkness and perceives it but denies it after God's proof is settled, then yes, they belong to hell.

Since you have stated that you believe we all perceive the truth of your many amazing 'arguments' and deny it; the short (and honest) answer would be that you expect all the atheists who have read your super-convincing 'proofs', which we all were secretly convinced by, to go to hell. The only thing that can save an atheist from hell, apparently, is to agree with MK or never know him.

Just think how many atheists would be saved from hell if you never posted here again, MK.

Kind of like to not know at all is better than to know and reject. Reminds me of Roko's Basilisk.