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RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 5, 2018 at 1:41 pm
(March 5, 2018 at 1:24 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (March 5, 2018 at 12:42 pm)SteveII Wrote: Of course 'infinity' means every one of those things you say it does not mean! The very first sentence in the Wikipedia article:
Need more?
in·fi·nite
ˈinfənət/
adjective
adjective: infinite
- 1.
limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate.
synonyms:
boundless, unbounded, unlimited, limitless, never-ending, interminable; More- very great in amount or degree.
"he bathed the wound with infinite care"
- MATHEMATICS
greater than any assignable quantity or countable number.
- MATHEMATICS
(of a series) able to be continued indefinitely.
Where are you getting your definition?
I think it's the same place as words such as "end", "contradiction", "assume", "never", "last" and the like.
(March 5, 2018 at 1:23 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Yes, of course I am saying they can be completed. That is what it means to be an actual infinity, after all.
The problem is that you have two very different notions of having an 'end'. One uses a list of the elements. The other is based on the order properties. if you want to list the elements of an infinite set one by one, you won't ever end that process. But that isn't required in the Zeno paradoxes. ALL that is required there is that every position has a time associated with it. THAT'S ALL.
So, if you use 'infinity' to describe quantity, then 'not having an end' is NOT the description you can use. That doesn't describe a quantity: it describes a process.
So what is it about the order that makes a thing infinite? Why is it, that you cannot list the elements, but you seem to think that you can go through them all sequentially? Are not both a process? When cutting in half in the dichotomy paradox, would that then demonstrate that the process; not the number of points is infinite?
Yes, that process is infinite. But the process of going through the points at a speed of .2 is NOT infinite.
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RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 5, 2018 at 2:42 pm
Wow Steve wikipedia 
And once again i thought he said he quit
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 6, 2018 at 7:34 am
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2018 at 7:38 am by GrandizerII.)
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RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 6, 2018 at 9:12 am
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RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 6, 2018 at 9:16 am
Funny thing is Aristotle actually did believe in an actual infinite time.
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RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 6, 2018 at 9:59 am
@Polymath
Are you a platonic realist? Do you think abstract mathematical objects really exist independent of the mind?
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RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 6, 2018 at 10:02 am
(March 6, 2018 at 9:59 am)SteveII Wrote: @Polymath
Are you a platonic realist? Do you think abstract mathematical objects really exist independent of the mind?
No. I am more of a formalist. But I think the formalism shows the logical possibilities.
After that, we use math as a language for understanding and modeling what we observe and formulating hypotheses about such.
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RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 6, 2018 at 10:40 am
This one is rather hilarious:
Quote:The multiverse theories of cosmology in the early 21st century allow there to be an uncountable infinity of universes within a background space whose volume is actually infinite. The universe created by our Big Bang is just one of these many universes. Christian theologians balk at the notion of God choosing to create this multiverse because the theory implies that, although there are so many universes radically different from ours, there also are an actually infinite number of copies of ours, which implies there are an infinite number of Jesuses who have been crucified on the cross. The removal of the uniqueness of Jesus is apparently a removal of his dignity. Augustine had this worry when considering infinite universes, and he responded that "Christ died once for sinners...."
Even Jesus is not allowed to be infinite!
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RE: Actual Infinity in Reality?
March 6, 2018 at 11:44 am
(March 6, 2018 at 10:40 am)Grandizer Wrote: This one is rather hilarious:
Quote:The multiverse theories of cosmology in the early 21st century allow there to be an uncountable infinity of universes within a background space whose volume is actually infinite. The universe created by our Big Bang is just one of these many universes. Christian theologians balk at the notion of God choosing to create this multiverse because the theory implies that, although there are so many universes radically different from ours, there also are an actually infinite number of copies of ours, which implies there are an infinite number of Jesuses who have been crucified on the cross. The removal of the uniqueness of Jesus is apparently a removal of his dignity. Augustine had this worry when considering infinite universes, and he responded that "Christ died once for sinners...."
Even Jesus is not allowed to be infinite!
That’s because jesus is a zero.
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