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Stephen Hawking has died at the age of 76.
RE: Stephen Hawking has died at the age of 76.
(April 27, 2018 at 2:22 pm)alpha male Wrote: Sure it is. You said previously, "You're literally believing in something that there can't possibly be any evidence of." We've now seen that you base this on a priori materialism.

No. If the natural world is entirely made of consciousness and idealism is true it is still the case that all evidence of the natural world is empirical... so it clearly has absolutely nothing to do with materialism.
Quote:More materialism. Nothing more.

Again, my points still stand if idealism is true so it clearly has nothing to do with materialism.

You're talking about something outside of the natural world. Supernaturalism =/= idealism and naturalism =/= materialism.

It's a total red herring on your part to bring up materialism. Many people wouldn't even consider me a materialist.
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RE: Stephen Hawking has died at the age of 76.
(April 27, 2018 at 11:09 am)possibletarian Wrote:


Now this is the problem we have Theists tend to point to the bits of the bible that have been proven true like the existence of Belshazzar to then claim that the whole bible can be trusted, even though there are clear problems, and when faced with these problems have to write whole reams of excuses lots of 'maybe's' or 'perhaps' (as in the post above) . This is fine when speculating archaeological  meanings of finds.  

This is not however what theists claim, they claim the scriptures to be divinely inspired by a god who knows all, see's all, and has protected that text. To prove that's not the case everything would have to be true and accurate.


You need the whole of scripture to be true to prove your case. I am interested in how you would define a 'reasonable explanation' when dealing with the seeming? disparity between scripture and what we discover, when is it not a reasonable explanation.. to you at least ?

I hope you don't mind, I skipped to the end of your post, because I think that you are saying something important to the discussion here.  I think that you are confusing the historicity or corroborating evidence with the doctrine of inerrancy or at least that I am talking about historicity while you are talking about inerrancy.  

 It does appear here, that you agree, that the texts do not need to be inerrant, in order to be considered historically reliable. It also appear that you issue is more about inerrancy than the historical aspect. I think that you may have a different sense of what it means for the scriptures to be inerrant though.

For myself; inerrancy doesn't mean that we treat the text with a hyper literalism that is not natural, or inflict upon it a precision that is not used in everyday language. I don't see where there is a special protection that prohibits someone from misinterpreting a text, or that would prevent them from giving that poor interpretation to others.  I don't believe that every word is picked special, or that we need to find deeper meaning and over analyze every jot and tilde.  I just simply believe that the Bible is true in what it reports, in the manner that it is reporting.

And even then, Christianity does not hinge on inerrancy; and a lack of inerrancy will not make the faith crumble (or should not anyway)
However, I think that a number of people over-complicate the subject.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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RE: Stephen Hawking has died at the age of 76.
alpha male Wrote:Fire-breathing dragons: large animals confined to earth. Would eventually be discovered as man explores the earth. Since man has explored most of the earth, reasonable to conclude that their existence is improbable.

God: not confined to earth. Cannot reasonably conclude from lack of observation that God's existence is therefore improbable.

I think fire-breathing dragons are more likely to exist on another planet than on earth. Where did you get your information that they're confined to earth. Not from Anne McCaffrey, that's for sure!

Grandizer Wrote:
Jehanne Wrote:Such individuals (who exist) are known as agnostic theists.

Now that's a phrase you don't hear quite often. I wonder if they are a myth. Tongue

I was one for years, though for most of that time I didn't know that would be the term that applied to me.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Stephen Hawking has died at the age of 76.
(April 27, 2018 at 4:35 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: And even then, Christianity does not hinge on inerrancy; and a lack of inerrancy will not make the faith crumble (or should not anyway)
However, I think that a number of people over-complicate the subject.

Scholars, in the West, used to believe in inerrancy; today, almost no one does.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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