Pedophilia in the Bible: this is a porn book

[WinterHold]

Only you can clear your own mind.  Look, I get it.,.I really do.  If magic book says what magic book says you'd have a problem with that, but you can't have a problem with magic book so magic book doesn't say it..ergo there must have been;

A: Really Good Reasons™
B: An apologists reinterpretation
.....or the ever popular
C: Memory Hole.  

Why you think I'd humor you for a moment, in this, is beyond me.  Go read your silly book...like you swear you have...and see whether it breaks with reality, or just breaks you.

Demanding for a textual evidence from a book that proves the accusations claimed against the author, is not an apologist bellydancing: it's the most and only reasonable way for humans to judge.

Still; I'm waiting for you to bring direct, explicit verses from the Quran that act as a proof to the accusations you made.
Until then: accusations are only what they are: accusations.

---

No; a "changing God" is not worthy of following or worshiping; in my opinion.
His creation go; he is there. Forever. Eternal.

That doesn't seem to me as a "changing" entity. It's us that need change sometimes; not him. His laws are the same since thousands of years, whoever goes against them perish. And he never changes for anybody too.

But here again God has not changed, your morality has.

God is righteous, righteousness assigns no moral value to action it simply forgives what is outside of God will when prompted.

What makes something wrong is when God says no, not without my permission. With God's permission all things are permissible. That again has never changed.

If we assumed that belief; then God is weak. He acts in the context of our morals; in other words we don't live as he wants, but he lives as we want; with positive and negative acknowledgements being a "human-made" possibilities that God is only there to cast his vote for the one he sees fitting the best.

I don't understand God like that. There are so many things I don't know about him; but I get that he has the total control. We don't control a thing. Everything is taking place because it makes sense; and God's wish is everything taking place; that his wish is always what makes sense.

He is not a man.

[The Grand Nudger]

Only you can clear your own mind.  Look, I get it.,.I really do.  If magic book says what magic book says you'd have a problem with that, but you can't have a problem with magic book so magic book doesn't say it..ergo there must have been;

A: Really Good Reasons™
B: An apologists reinterpretation
.....or the ever popular
C: Memory Hole.  

Why you think I'd humor you for a moment, in this, is beyond me.  Go read your silly book...like you swear you have...and see whether it breaks with reality, or just breaks you.

Demanding for a textual evidence from a book that proves the accusations claimed against the author, is not an apologist bellydancing: it's the most and only reasonable way for humans to judge.

Still; I'm waiting for you to bring direct, explicit verses from the Quran that act as a proof to the accusations you made.
Until then: accusations are only what they are: accusations.

Your....magic.....book.  Deal with it yourself....or don't, I don't care.  I simply note that this thread is hilarious coming from a muslim.

[WinterHold]

Demanding for a textual evidence from a book that proves the accusations claimed against the author, is not an apologist bellydancing: it's the most and only reasonable way for humans to judge.

Still; I'm waiting for you to bring direct, explicit verses from the Quran that act as a proof to the accusations you made.
Until then: accusations are only what they are: accusations.

Your....magic.....book.  Deal with it yourself....or don't, I don't care.  I simply note that this thread is hilarious coming from a muslim.

But you entered this discussion by your own free will; and you who made an accusation without an evidence.
You failed to bring any verses from the Quran that explicitly and honestly call for and advocate slavery. It should be a good indication for you that the people who keep repeating this opinion, are either ignorant, didn't read the Quran or biased, because slavery is not allowed in the Quran.

[LadyForCamus]

It's your magic book, It shouldn't take dirty kafir like me to tell you what's in it or where.  Go read the silly fuckin thing for a change.

Problem is I read it; but I couldn't find orders regarding "taking slaves".
So could you clear my mind, with an explicit direct verse that tell Muslims to enslave people?

I’ve never read the Quran, but I’ve read the Bible.  Does god command men to NOT take women as slaves?  Does he explicitly instruct that it’s immoral because women are autonomous beings who deserve to be treated as such?  Does he specifically prohibit patriarchy?  Does he clearly prohibit rape? If not, then that’s as good as permission, my friend.  If your book is essentially a list of shit NOT to do, commanded by god, and rape/sexual slavery aren’t on that list, then it’s a pretty reasonable inference that those things aren’t of concern to him.  What kind of god does not bother to outlaw rape and slavery?

[WinterHold]

Problem is I read it; but I couldn't find orders regarding "taking slaves".
So could you clear my mind, with an explicit direct verse that tell Muslims to enslave people?

I’ve never read the Quran, but I’ve read the Bible.  Does god command men to NOT take women as slaves?  Does he explicitly instruct that it’s immoral because women are autonomous beings who deserve to be treated as such?  Does he specifically prohibit patriarchy?  Does he clearly prohibit rape? If not, then that’s as good as permission, my friend.  If your book is essentially a list of shit NOT to do, commanded by god, and rape/sexual slavery aren’t on that list, then it’s a pretty reasonable inference that those things aren’t of concern to him.  What kind of god does not bother to outlaw rape and slavery?

The concept of equality between men and women can be seen in this verse:

Sura 3, The Quran:
( 194 )   Our Lord, and grant us what You promised us through Your messengers and do not disgrace us on the Day of Resurrection. Indeed, You do not fail in [Your] promise."
( 195 )   And their Lord responded to them, "Never will I allow to be lost the work of [any] worker among you, whether male or female; you are of one another. So those who emigrated or were evicted from their homes or were harmed in My cause or fought or were killed - I will surely remove from them their misdeeds, and I will surely admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow as reward from Allah, and Allah has with Him the best reward."

I don't recall reading a text that old, that tells "men and women" that they are of "one another" explicitly.
There is this verse:

Sura 7, The Quran:
( 189 )   It is He who created you from one soul and created from it its mate that he might dwell in security with her. And when he covers her, she carries a light burden and continues therein. And when it becomes heavy, they both invoke Allah, their Lord, "If You should give us a good [child], we will surely be among the grateful."

Proving that our origin is one and single.
Christianity favored Adam over Eve, and gave man rights that he doesn't deserve.

[The Grand Nudger]

Your....magic.....book.  Deal with it yourself....or don't, I don't care.  I simply note that this thread is hilarious coming from a muslim.

But you entered this discussion by your own free will; and you who made an accusation without an evidence.
You failed to bring any verses from the Quran that explicitly and honestly call for and advocate slavery. It should be a good indication for you that the people who keep repeating this opinion, are either ignorant, didn't read the Quran or biased, because slavery is not allowed in the Quran.

Your...magic...book.  Your compatriot didn't have any trouble finding multiple apologists trying to make sense of what he and I and...apparently, everyone but you.... already knew was in there.

Looks like you've taken option c, the memory hole.  Slavery is -regulated- in magic book, sure... just as it is in the christians magic book..and again..as A Southern Person™, I have a difficult time breathing through the laughter when a genteel slaver says his slavery is better because it's genteel. The reality, explicit acceptance and recommendation of slavery is contained within your magic book..up to and including trafficking females who invariably would have been children..for purposes of sex.

Sure..it says nice things about slaves. How the slave and the master may be equals before god..even if a slave should submit in this life. Such as how you should buy their freedom to atone for your misdeeds. Or if, god forbid, you want to marry one. So does the christians magic book. What they both have in common, beyond this..is the alleged word of a god recommending that the faithful avail themselves of slave girls. It's for this very reason that apologists even bother with the attempt to tackle the matter.

Your.....magic........................book. Your excuse is already baked in..it has been from the word go, and it;s the same excuse as theirs. Free will, lol..yeah, let's talk about that. Who..of their own free will..standing in a glass house, threw a stone and then threw a fit when their rank bullshit got called for what it was? "Show me where, show me where, you must be ignorant or haven't read it or BIAS!"..........

Show yourself.

[LadyForCamus]

I’ve never read the Quran, but I’ve read the Bible.  Does god command men to NOT take women as slaves?  Does he explicitly instruct that it’s immoral because women are autonomous beings who deserve to be treated as such?  Does he specifically prohibit patriarchy?  Does he clearly prohibit rape? If not, then that’s as good as permission, my friend.  If your book is essentially a list of shit NOT to do, commanded by god, and rape/sexual slavery aren’t on that list, then it’s a pretty reasonable inference that those things aren’t of concern to him.  What kind of god does not bother to outlaw rape and slavery?

The concept of equality between men and women can be seen in this verse:

Sura 3, The Quran:
( 194 )   Our Lord, and grant us what You promised us through Your messengers and do not disgrace us on the Day of Resurrection. Indeed, You do not fail in [Your] promise."
( 195 )   And their Lord responded to them, "Never will I allow to be lost the work of [any] worker among you, whether male or female; you are of one another. So those who emigrated or were evicted from their homes or were harmed in My cause or fought or were killed - I will surely remove from them their misdeeds, and I will surely admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow as reward from Allah, and Allah has with Him the best reward."

I don't recall reading a text that old, that tells "men and women" that they are of "one another" explicitly.
There is this verse:

Sura 7, The Quran:
( 189 )   It is He who created you from one soul and created from it its mate that he might dwell in security with her. And when he covers her, she carries a light burden and continues therein. And when it becomes heavy, they both invoke Allah, their Lord, "If You should give us a good [child], we will surely be among the grateful."

Proving that our origin is one and single.
Christianity favored Adam over Eve, and gave man rights that he doesn't deserve.

So, no.  None of that horrific shit is explicitly condemned by your god.  He had a whole damn book, and he still couldn’t find room for the words, “don’t rape”.  Good to know.

[The Grand Nudger]

-allow me, silly kafir that I am to make a suggestion.  Not just to you, but to any religious person reading this thread.  If you won;t read magic book..fine.  Put it down.  Pick up some apologetics.  Not to see the "explanation" for this or that crime against humanity in your magic book.  Nothing like that.  Just take in the breadth and depth of profound hand wringing that apologetics is.  Consider how thoroughly and utterly flawed some divine text would invariably be...if it needed that much excusing, and that many people to do it.  

Continue believing in the gods of your choice..by all means.  Consider, though..for just a moment..how an existent god would take these horrid works of fiction.  Books so completely void of anything divine that men have had to make excuses for them since the moment they were written...and they're still not done excusing them a thousand years later.  You won't find allah in the quran, if he exists.  You won't find christ in the NT, or Yahweh in the OT.  You'll find the failures of men.  The failures of men written in, and then the failures of men excusing those initial failures.  

You'll find your own failures in laying all of this silly shit at the feet of the lord of creation..as though it even could  be so inept, as though it would be a morally bankrupt slaver, a kiddie fucker, a raider, an ethnic cleanser.  As though it would choose some favorite savage and, through that savage, leave the rest of it's creation to whip like a flag fucking up where that savage fucked up.

Ask yourselves... and ask yourselves honestly. Who believes in a god......you, or me?

[WinterHold]

But you entered this discussion by your own free will; and you who made an accusation without an evidence.
You failed to bring any verses from the Quran that explicitly and honestly call for and advocate slavery. It should be a good indication for you that the people who keep repeating this opinion, are either ignorant, didn't read the Quran or biased, because slavery is not allowed in the Quran.

Your...magic...book.  Your compatriot didn't have any trouble finding multiple apologists trying to make sense of what he and I and...apparently, everyone but you.... already knew was in there.

Looks like you've taken option c, the memory hole.  Slavery is -regulated- in magic book, sure... just as it is in the christians magic book..and again..as A Southern Person™, I have a difficult time breathing through the laughter when a genteel slaver says his slavery is better because it's genteel.  The reality, explicit acceptance and recommendation of slavery is contained within your magic book..up to and including trafficking females who invariably would have been children..for purposes of sex.  

Sure..it says nice things about slaves.  How the slave and the master may be equals before god..even if a slave should submit in this life.  Such as how you should buy their freedom to atone for your misdeeds.   Or if, god forbid, you want to marry one.  So does the christians magic book.  What they both have in common, beyond this..is the alleged word of a god recommending that the faithful avail themselves of slave girls.  It's for this very reason that apologists even bother with the attempt to tackle the matter.

Your.....magic........................book.  Your excuse is already baked in..it has been from the word go, and it;s the same excuse as theirs.  Free will, lol..yeah, let's talk about that.  Who..of their own free will..standing in a glass house, threw a stone and then threw a fit when their rank bullshit got called for what it was?  "Show me where, show me where, you must be ignorant or haven't read it or BIAS!"..........

Show yourself.  

Still; you made an accusation that the Quran advocates slavery; and failed to bring a single textual evidence from the book that proves the accusation you made.

[LadyForCamus]

If one book needs five hundred books worth of excuses to deal with its objections, then the problem is with the book, not the objections.