In the beginning....

[chimp3]

For a book that prides itself on the witness of the characters within it to prove its accuracy, there's a lack of witnesses for the beginning and even the first several books of the bible.

I'm certain believers in the Christian myth are fine with accepting that certain supposed authors were divinely inspired enough to write the accounts they did.

The truth is that a divinely inspired claim is just that.  I certainly trust it no more than when Gerald Gardner or Joseph Smith or Ron Hubbard made their wild claims; yet, people are willing to accept any sort of claim for the sake of comfort and community.

In the end, the beginnings of what religion claims is nothing more than fanciful imagination.

Considering the people Moses was willing to kill for worshipping the wrong god, imagine what he would do to Christians and Jews today for citing the wrong interpretation of the Pentateuch.

[Minimalist]

The Jewish people prided themselves in being completely accurate in the retelling of stories so the meaning wouldn't be lost to the next generation.

Says who, G-C?  You?  You have no credibility at all.  You know anthropologists and psychologists have studied this issue.  You are completely wrong.  Maybe you better read Ehrman's "Jesus Before The Gospels."  That is, if you can put your fucking bible down long enough to learn anything.

[Abaddon_ire]

First let me say I've seen what people call trees in other parts of this country that I would call a bush, yet they are trees by a scientific definition.

Great. By scientific definition, mustard is in the cabbage family. See any cabbage trees around lately?

Second the mustard seed is the smallest of seeds known to the Jews of that day. Jesus used this as a proverbial statement to show how something so small can become so large in comparison of size.

So you are claiming that Jesus the Jew new only as much as his fellow Jews. Fine by me.

The mustard plant that Jesus was speaking of could grow up to ten feet tall and there are trees that are shorter than that.

Nope, 2 feet tall.

The Rabbis used this proverbial saying before Jesus did, it is a way to convey a meaning.

So now you claim that Jesus the Jew plagiarised the idea. Fine by me

Boy for someone who says the Bible can't be taken literally you sure find it convenient to take it literally to prove your point when the passage was never meant to be literal or scientific.

Bible can't be taken literally? Everyone knows that but you.

Mustard was considered a very important herb in all it's forms for thousands of years, from a food source to medicine. 

Nope. Just a condiment. Earliest known use was the Indus in about 3,000 BC giving rise to the Sumerian civilisation which proves that the Epic of Gilgamesh is more accurate that your holey babble.

 I like this, "almost certain," meaning we do not know. The Jewish people prided themselves in being completely accurate in the retelling of stories so the meaning wouldn't be lost to the next generation. No communication doesn't work that way, spicing up a story to make it more interesting and less believable does though, you know like the stories the atheist here tell about the Word of God.

Really? Then why do you not convert to Judaism? According to you, they must have the most accurate account. This, of course, means that Jesus the Jew was not the messiah or anything like it.

In other news, bible Adam and Eve never existed so that is a lie. Bible god came up with three different versions of the ten commandments and Jesus the Jew only cited 5 of those and everyone ignores the other 600 odd commandments except for Jesus who explicitly endorsed those very 600 commandments. Lies aplenty right there.

What about Gen 1? Why does it conflict with Gen 2? Why do both conflict with science?

How did Moses write a book describing his own funeral?

Then we have the problem of the three omnis...
Omnipotent - God is all powerful, sovereign.

Omniscience - God is all knowing all the time.

Omnipresent - God is everywhere at once.

The holey babble explicitly denies all three.

Omnipotent - Except if the enemy has iron chariots. An M1A1 Abrams could mess god up.

Omniscience - Useless god couldn't find Adam in the Garden of Eden.

Omnipresent - Would not have needed to search for Adam if true.

The bottom line here is that the bible is full of obvious lies and falsehoods.

[Godscreated]

First let me say I've seen what people call trees in other parts of this country that I would call a bush, yet they are trees by a scientific definition.

Great. By scientific definition, mustard is in the cabbage family. See any cabbage trees around lately?

Ever see a cabbage that's ten foot tall and looks like a small tree or large bush.

Second the mustard seed is the smallest of seeds known to the Jews of that day. Jesus used this as a proverbial statement to show how something so small can become so large in comparison of size.

So you are claiming that Jesus the Jew new only as much as his fellow Jews. Fine by me.

Jesus knew about everything He created, it was the Jews who knew of no smaller seed and it was used as a proverbial statement even before Jesus time.

The mustard plant that Jesus was speaking of could grow up to ten feet tall and there are trees that are shorter than that.

Nope, 2 feet tall.

Yes 8 to 10 feet tall better check, I have and it is still being used today.

The Rabbis used this proverbial saying before Jesus did, it is a way to convey a meaning.

So now you claim that Jesus the Jew plagiarised the idea. Fine by me

Now your showing how stupid you are, using a common statement is not plagiarism. 

Boy for someone who says the Bible can't be taken literally you sure find it convenient to take it literally to prove your point when the passage was never meant to be literal or scientific.

Bible can't be taken literally? Everyone knows that but you.

The only ones who believe the Bible can't be literal are those who do not believe and thus they can't be trusted to tell the truth, yes I mean you.

Mustard was considered a very important herb in all it's forms for thousands of years, from a food source to medicine. 

Nope. Just a condiment. Earliest known use was the Indus in about 3,000 BC giving rise to the Sumerian civilisation which proves that the Epic of Gilgamesh is more accurate that your holey babble.

The Epic of Gilgamesh gave dimensions on the arc and how it was to be built, when one was built to a much smaller size it virtually sank right from the get go. The Arc of the Bible has been shown to be a stable vessel and one that could have taken sever poundings from raging seas. The mustard is 5000 years in use and it was used in ancient Chinese medicine long before Jesus came to earth. You better study harder or stay out of these discussions. By the way a condiment is a food source.

 I like this, "almost certain," meaning we do not know. The Jewish people prided themselves in being completely accurate in the retelling of stories so the meaning wouldn't be lost to the next generation. No communication doesn't work that way, spicing up a story to make it more interesting and less believable does though, you know like the stories the atheist here tell about the Word of God.

Really? Then why do you not convert to Judaism? According to you, they must have the most accurate account. This, of course, means that Jesus the Jew was not the messiah or anything like it.

In other news, bible Adam and Eve never existed so that is a lie. Bible god came up with three different versions of the ten commandments and Jesus the Jew only cited 5 of those and everyone ignores the other 600 odd commandments except for Jesus who explicitly endorsed those very 600 commandments. Lies aplenty right there.

Jesus never came to endorse those laws, he came to fulfill the moral laws and since you seem to have a claim that Adam and Eve never existed you have some proving to do, there is one set of commandments not three different ones. Exactly why do you believe Jesus needed to cite more than five of the Commandments, what rule says he had to give all ten, got any answers for these questions?

What about Gen 1? Why does it conflict with Gen 2? Why do both conflict with science?

They do not conflict, one just gives some detail of the other, someone who flaunts his own great mental capacity ought to be able to see that. neither conflict with real science, the so called Big Pop theory is in conflict with what God tells us happened.

How did Moses write a book describing his own funeral?

He didn't Joshua finished that book.

Then we have the problem of the three omnis...
Omnipotent - God is all powerful, sovereign.

Omniscience - God is all knowing all the time.

Omnipresent - God is everywhere at once.

The holey babble explicitly denies all three.

Omnipotent - Except if the enemy has iron chariots. An M1A1 Abrams could mess god up.

Omniscience - Useless god couldn't find Adam in the Garden of Eden.

Omnipresent - Would not have needed to search for Adam if true.

The bottom line here is that the bible is full of obvious lies and falsehoods.

  What's obvious is you do not have an inkling of understanding of the scriptures, you only repeat what you've heard and not knowing what you have heard is true or false makes you the gullible one. Apparently you do not care whether false statements made by others and repeated by you make you look stupid. 
Because God is eternal and omnipresent it means He has been everywhere, He has already been into the future because He has always been there. God knew where Adam and Eve were, He called to them as a loving father would call to his child who had done wrong and was hiding. Dad knew the child was hiding in the bedroom just as God the Father knew where Adam and Eve were hiding. For someone who claims to be smart you do show a great lack of common sense and reasoning. The chariots did not stop God from working it was the disobedience of the Israelites, punishment sometimes come when one least expects it. You are always moving in on my discussions with other and I can only assume you have nothing better to do or you feel left out. I've answered all you posted and you might as well be satisfied with that because I am not going to answer your reply, I'm to busy to be bothered with such stupid replies.

GC

---

---

 Could it be you are not intelligent enough to dispute fact.

GC

Not at all. You knew exactly what it meant so your attempt at an insult, fails.

 Really, I saw the statement as you beating around a bush that baffles you, what I stated was all true and you had no answer for my post.

GC

---

you speak as if you believe and I know you do not so what you say has to be taken with a grain of salt.

I speak as if it happened in the fictional universe, just like SW fans discuss if the rebels killed innocent workers when they destroyed Death Star in "Return Of Jedi"

You speak no truth when it comes to God.

Just how is it you see that God is lying.

Because they said it.

They who, the people you found on a biased web site, you repeated them to justify your own disbelief, God want be so understanding of such dishonesty.

the mustard seed is the smallest of seeds known to the Jews of that day.

Even first-century Palestinian farmers knew of a few other seeds that were smaller, such as the black orchid.[/quote]

 There were no Palestinians then, so they could not have known. The so-called Palestinians are not a specific people they are a hodge podge of Middle eastern people that settled in Israel when it wasn't the country of the Israelies. Many of the people who were there from other countries were not wanted in their own especially Syria. Are you sure black orchids grew in the middle east, I do not know but i do know the black orchid is native to the Americas and Australia seems these lands were yet to be discovered in the first century.

GC

[Fake Messiah]

They who, the people you found on a biased web site, you repeated them to justify your own disbelief, God want be so understanding of such dishonesty.

By "they" I obviously meant people in the Bible, that's why I put the verses of people telling that god lied to them. You are the one who is dishonest, but because you're dishonest "in the name of god" you think it's justified.

Are you sure black orchids grew in the middle east, I do not know

No shit. You don't know a lot of things.

[Abaddon_ire]

Great. By scientific definition, mustard is in the cabbage family. See any cabbage trees around lately?

Ever see a cabbage that's ten foot tall and looks like a small tree or large bush.

Staggering ignorance.

Second the mustard seed is the smallest of seeds known to the Jews of that day. Jesus used this as a proverbial statement to show how something so small can become so large in comparison of size.

So you are claiming that Jesus the Jew new only as much as his fellow Jews. Fine by me.

Jesus knew about everything He created, it was the Jews who knew of no smaller seed and it was used as a proverbial statement even before Jesus time.

Jesus created nothing.

The mustard plant that Jesus was speaking of could grow up to ten feet tall and there are trees that are shorter than that.

Nope, 2 feet tall.

Yes 8 to 10 feet tall better check, I have and it is still being used today.

Wrong. The variety in question is Sinapis hirta 2 feet, you lose.

The Rabbis used this proverbial saying before Jesus did, it is a way to convey a meaning.

So now you claim that Jesus the Jew plagiarised the idea. Fine by me

Now your showing how stupid you are, using a common statement is not plagiarism. 

Now your claim is that jesus the jew had no original thought of his own, he was just regurgitating commonplace sayings of the time. Why do you hate jesus so much?

Boy for someone who says the Bible can't be taken literally you sure find it convenient to take it literally to prove your point when the passage was never meant to be literal or scientific.

Bible can't be taken literally? Everyone knows that but you.

The only ones who believe the Bible can't be literal are those who do not believe and thus they can't be trusted to tell the truth, yes I mean you.

Make up your mind. You have both asserted and disavowed literalism. Which is it?

Mustard was considered a very important herb in all it's forms for thousands of years, from a food source to medicine. 

Nope. Just a condiment. Earliest known use was the Indus in about 3,000 BC giving rise to the Sumerian civilisation which proves that the Epic of Gilgamesh is more accurate that your holey babble.

The Epic of Gilgamesh gave dimensions on the arc and how it was to be built, when one was built to a much smaller size it virtually sank right from the get go. The Arc of the Bible has been shown to be a stable vessel and one that could have taken sever poundings from raging seas. The mustard is 5000 years in use and it was used in ancient Chinese medicine long before Jesus came to earth. You better study harder or stay out of these discussions. By the way a condiment is a food source.

Why must you lie? The Ark has been demonstrated to be an auto-shipwreck.

 I like this, "almost certain," meaning we do not know. The Jewish people prided themselves in being completely accurate in the retelling of stories so the meaning wouldn't be lost to the next generation. No communication doesn't work that way, spicing up a story to make it more interesting and less believable does though, you know like the stories the atheist here tell about the Word of God.

Really? Then why do you not convert to Judaism? According to you, they must have the most accurate account. This, of course, means that Jesus the Jew was not the messiah or anything like it.

In other news, bible Adam and Eve never existed so that is a lie. Bible god came up with three different versions of the ten commandments and Jesus the Jew only cited 5 of those and everyone ignores the other 600 odd commandments except for Jesus who explicitly endorsed those very 600 commandments. Lies aplenty right there.

Jesus never came to endorse those laws, he came to fulfill the moral laws

Mat. 5:18-19

and since you seem to have a claim that Adam and Eve never existed you have some proving to do,

No, I actually do not. We know that humans have been about for circa 200,000 years. Genetics tells us precisely who descends from whom. The bible lies. The Adam and Eve crap is stupid on it's face.

there is one set of commandments not three different ones.

I didn't realise you had not read the bible.

Exactly why do you believe Jesus needed to cite more than five of the Commandments, what rule says he had to give all ten, got any answers for these questions?

Which did he include and which did he exclude? Why?

What about Gen 1? Why does it conflict with Gen 2? Why do both conflict with science?

They do not conflict, one just gives some detail of the other, someone who flaunts his own great mental capacity ought to be able to see that. neither conflict with real science, the so called Big Pop theory is in conflict with what God tells us happened.

They do conflict. You clearly have not read the miserable book. The big bang theory conforms with reality, god does not.

How did Moses write a book describing his own funeral?

He didn't Joshua finished that book.

You made a funny. Do tell how you know that.

Then we have the problem of the three omnis...
Omnipotent - God is all powerful, sovereign.

Omniscience - God is all knowing all the time.

Omnipresent - God is everywhere at once.

The holey babble explicitly denies all three.

Omnipotent - Except if the enemy has iron chariots. An M1A1 Abrams could mess god up.

Omniscience - Useless god couldn't find Adam in the Garden of Eden.

Omnipresent - Would not have needed to search for Adam if true.

The bottom line here is that the bible is full of obvious lies and falsehoods.

  What's obvious is you do not have an inkling of understanding of the scriptures, you only repeat what you've heard and not knowing what you have heard is true or false makes you the gullible one. Apparently you do not care whether false statements made by others and repeated by you make you look stupid. 
Because God is eternal and omnipresent it means He has been everywhere, He has already been into the future because He has always been there. God knew where Adam and Eve were, He called to them as a loving father would call to his child who had done wrong and was hiding. Dad knew the child was hiding in the bedroom just as God the Father knew where Adam and Eve were hiding. For someone who claims to be smart you do show a great lack of common sense and reasoning. The chariots did not stop God from working it was the disobedience of the Israelites, punishment sometimes come when one least expects it. You are always moving in on my discussions with other and I can only assume you have nothing better to do or you feel left out. I've answered all you posted and you might as well be satisfied with that because I am not going to answer your reply, I'm to busy to be bothered with such stupid replies.

GC

Ah. When your abject ignorance is exposed, even about your own book, you have no resort other than to hurl insults. #how very "christian" of you.

[vorlon13]

2 Thessalonians 2 (KJV)
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


It occurs to me some who might think they are of God might nevertheless lie about God's ability to lie . . . .

[Godscreated]

They who, the people you found on a biased web site, you repeated them to justify your own disbelief, God want be so understanding of such dishonesty.

By "they" I obviously meant people in the Bible, that's why I put the verses of people telling that god lied to them. You are the one who is dishonest, but because you're dishonest "in the name of god" you think it's justified.

God did not lie and you did not respond to the important things of the previous post.

Are you sure black orchids grew in the middle east, I do not know

No shit. You don't know a lot of things.

 Seems you have no real answers to anything, the pot trying to call the kettle black.

GC

[Godscreated]

Ever see a cabbage that's ten foot tall and looks like a small tree or large bush.

Staggering ignorance.

The ignorance is your's, we are speaking about a certain plant of the mustard family that was more than likely used for it's oil.

Second the mustard seed is the smallest of seeds known to the Jews of that day. Jesus used this as a proverbial statement to show how something so small can become so large in comparison of size.


Jesus knew about everything He created, it was the Jews who knew of no smaller seed and it was used as a proverbial statement even before Jesus time.

Jesus created nothing

You are arguing from ignorance, you have made a statement you know nothing about, so now give me proof of your statement out side of a theory that can't be proven. 

The mustard plant that Jesus was speaking of could grow up to ten feet tall and there are trees that are shorter than that.



Yes 8 to 10 feet tall better check, I have and it is still being used today.

Wrong. The variety in question is Sinapis hirta 2 feet, you lose.

So quick to claim victory and to ignorant to know you're wrong. The seed group that Jesus referred to is the lachana group, this would be all the plants planted for food in Israel. Brassica nigra is the plant Jesus was referring to.

The Rabbis used this proverbial saying before Jesus did, it is a way to convey a meaning.

Now your showing how stupid you are, using a common statement is not plagiarism.

Now your claim is that jesus the jew had no original thought of his own, he was just regurgitating commonplace sayings of the time. Why do you hate jesus so much?

You are trying to say something that's not true of me and you try and do so by showing disrespect for Jesus by incorrectly spelling His name. Jesus was using a statement that was popular with the people of Israel at the time, something that they could relate to. Jesus is the originator of thought as God the Son. You are failing so much I would think you would quit and try something else.

Boy for someone who says the Bible can't be taken literally you sure find it convenient to take it literally to prove your point when the passage was never meant to be literal or scientific.

The only ones who believe the Bible can't be literal are those who do not believe and thus they can't be trusted to tell the truth, yes I mean you.

Make up your mind. You have both asserted and disavowed literalism. Which is it?

I've always claimed the Bible is 100% true and still do, I've said that the parables were stories to bring out truth and do not have to be absolutely literal to do so. It is you who is wishy washy only for the reason to prove to yourself you are right, you fool no one.

Mustard was considered a very important herb in all it's forms for thousands of years, from a food source to medicine. 

The Epic of Gilgamesh gave dimensions on the arc and how it was to be built, when one was built to a much smaller size it virtually sank right from the get go. The Arc of the Bible has been shown to be a stable vessel and one that could have taken sever poundings from raging seas. The mustard is 5000 years in use and it was used in ancient Chinese medicine long before Jesus came to earth. You better study harder or stay out of these discussions. By the way a condiment is a food source.

Why must you lie? The Ark has been demonstrated to be an auto-shipwreck.

You knew so little of the story of Gilgamesh that you didn't even know that the people who were trying to disavow the truth of Noah's Arc by building a small replica of the arc in the Gilgamesh story were failures. They even tried to use electric pumps to remove enough water so it would float, when they turned them off to the bottom it would go. Models of Noah's Arc have been show to be sea worthy even in the roughest of storms.

 I like this, "almost certain," meaning we do not know. The Jewish people prided themselves in being completely accurate in the retelling of stories so the meaning wouldn't be lost to the next generation. No communication doesn't work that way, spicing up a story to make it more interesting and less believable does though, you know like the stories the atheist here tell about the Word of God.


Jesus never came to endorse those laws, he came to fulfill the moral laws

Mat. 5:18-19

Giving verses without explanation is like trying to start a car without gas in it, you're going nowhere fast. The above bold by me is still my response and is held up by the scriptures.

and since you seem to have a claim that Adam and Eve never existed you have some proving to do,

No, I actually do not. We know that humans have been about for circa 200,000 years. Genetics tells us precisely who descends from whom. The bible lies. The Adam and Eve crap is stupid on it's face.

By genetics we know there was an original mother and by the unreliable science of age dating we can not trust those dating methods or there results. Because of there unreliability I will not even accept them for trying to prove biblical dates and/or items.

there is one set of commandments not three different ones.

I didn't realise you had not read the bible.

I know more about the scriptures than you will ever know in your immediate condition. There is only one set of The Ten Commandments, if you were to read the Bible you would find this out, but instead you are willing to let the foolish make you look foolish.

Exactly why do you believe Jesus needed to cite more than five of the Commandments, what rule says he had to give all ten, got any answers for these questions?

Which did he include and which did he exclude? Why?

And that reply seems to be answers to you, you need to grow up.

They do not conflict, one just gives some detail of the other, someone who flaunts his own great mental capacity ought to be able to see that. neither conflict with real science, the so called Big Pop theory is in conflict with what God tells us happened.

They do conflict. You clearly have not read the miserable book. The big bang theory conforms with reality, god does not.

You have said this twice now yet you haven't shown it to be a reality. It's you who couldn't have read the Bible or you would know it isn't a miserable book, instead you would find it a book full of life. The big pop is not reality, it has so many problems that science has quit trying to explain them away and just ignore them.

He didn't Joshua finished that book.

You made a funny. Do tell how you know that.

Nothing funny about it, stands to reason that Moses couldn't have written the end after He was dead and Joshua was the next in line as the leader and spokesman for Israel. Reasoning is a good thing, try it sometime.

  What's obvious is you do not have an inkling of understanding of the scriptures, you only repeat what you've heard and not knowing what you have heard is true or false makes you the gullible one. Apparently you do not care whether false statements made by others and repeated by you make you look stupid. 
Because God is eternal and omnipresent it means He has been everywhere, He has already been into the future because He has always been there. God knew where Adam and Eve were, He called to them as a loving father would call to his child who had done wrong and was hiding. Dad knew the child was hiding in the bedroom just as God the Father knew where Adam and Eve were hiding. For someone who claims to be smart you do show a great lack of common sense and reasoning. The chariots did not stop God from working it was the disobedience of the Israelites, punishment sometimes come when one least expects it. You are always moving in on my discussions with other and I can only assume you have nothing better to do or you feel left out. I've answered all you posted and you might as well be satisfied with that because I am not going to answer your reply, I'm to busy to be bothered with such stupid replies.

GC

Ah. When your abject ignorance is exposed, even about your own book, you have no resort other than to hurl insults. #how very "christian" of you.

 There is much I do not know about the scriptures, ten life times wouldn't be enough for anyone, God is constantly teaching people new things from His written eternal wisdom. By the way insults would be something that's not true about someone and I do not see I've said anything about you that's not true. So yes by telling the truth is a Christian response.

GC

---

2 Thessalonians 2   (KJV)
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


It occurs to me some who might think they are of God might nevertheless lie about God's ability to lie  . . . .

I've given answers to this several times and you are still unable to understand, why?

GC

[Minimalist]

the mustard seed is the smallest of seeds known to the Jews of that day.

Even first-century Palestinian farmers knew of a few other seeds that were smaller, such as the black orchid.

 There were no Palestinians then, so they could not have known. The so-called Palestinians are not a specific people they are a hodge podge of Middle eastern people that settled in Israel when it wasn't the country of the Israelies. Many of the people who were there from other countries were not wanted in their own especially Syria. Are you sure black orchids grew in the middle east, I do not know but i do know the black orchid is native to the Americas and Australia seems these lands were yet to be discovered in the first century.

GC


Oh, G-C...you poor dumb shit.  Kindly explain how Herodutus, writing in the 5th century BC knew the term "Palestine."

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text...:chapter=5

Now the only apparent way of entry into Egypt is this. The road runs from Phoenicia as far as the borders of the city of Cadytis,1 which belongs to the so-called Syrians of Palestine. [Cadytis most likely being Gaza, which is along the road to Egypt.]

You know what Herodotus never heard of, G-C?  Jews.  Or Jerusalem.  Never heard of the fuckers.  Funny, huh?  I keep telling you to put that stupid fucking bible down but you just don't listen.