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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 2, 2018 at 7:19 pm
(May 2, 2018 at 7:17 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: (May 2, 2018 at 6:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: As for nothing, I don't think first moment in time just appearing out of nothing makes sense.
You are not a physicist and therefore not qualified to make this statement. Lots of physicists believe the universe (space and time) emerged from nothing. Read A Universe From Nothing by Lawrence Krauss.
Although he argues a lot how nothing is a lot. And people confuse what he means by nothing, and he goes to explain a lot of what is meant by nothing is something.
And at the end, he doesn't believe there is a 1st moment in time to start with absolutely, just 1st moment in this time-space universe. So.. in his theory big bang happens over and over again and things contract. Or do I misunderstand him?
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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 2, 2018 at 7:34 pm
(This post was last modified: May 2, 2018 at 7:37 pm by chimp3.)
Read one book from the iron age and you're an expert in physics and cosmology. How simple. Avoids all that post-graduate work and Doctoral research.
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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 2, 2018 at 8:28 pm
(May 2, 2018 at 7:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (May 2, 2018 at 7:15 pm)Grandizer Wrote: I've given you all the hints you need. Now go read you some philosophy and cosmology.
I think you are talking about infinite chain of moments of time type set up theory with big bang and contraction happening over and over again. In that case, it has nothing to do with this argument, since I'm talking about if there is 1st moment in time, not arguing whether or not the moment of the big bang is that 1st moment.
You think wrong. Which is why I am urging you to go do some reading on the philosophy and science of time. Believe me, once you do the reading, you will know what I'm referring to eventually.
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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 2, 2018 at 8:37 pm
(This post was last modified: May 2, 2018 at 8:38 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(May 2, 2018 at 7:17 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: (May 2, 2018 at 6:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: As for nothing, I don't think first moment in time just appearing out of nothing makes sense.
You are not a physicist and therefore not qualified to make this statement. Lots of physicists believe the universe (space and time) emerged from nothing. Read A Universe From Nothing by Lawrence Krauss, who is (was) a physics professor.
No one is qualified to make any statement of how the universe got here.
Quoted from Krauss at 40:46 of the video:
Quote:Why is there something rather than nothing? The answer is, there had to be. If you have nothing in quantum mechanics, you'll always get something.
That explains everything.... 
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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 2, 2018 at 8:50 pm
(This post was last modified: May 2, 2018 at 9:59 pm by Angrboda.)
You're just engaged in special pleading. If something with a will can do something in a timeless state, then something without a will (whatever that means) can do things in a timeless state. The main problem is that things "doing" things outside of time is an incoherent notion, so you simply want to carve out an exception to that by fiat. It doesn't work that way. If you can exempt willed things from the constraints of timelessness, there's nothing stopping me from doing the same from a being or thing without will. The only cover you have for the one rather than the other is the fact that you have a vague and ill defined metaphysics of timelessness and being, allowing "magic" to be claimed as an explanation. If you can invoke magical explanations, then so can I. Otherwise you've just engaged in a double standard.
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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 2, 2018 at 9:43 pm
The entire middle east is on fire and you worry about shit like this?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/sui...0310130b67
Quote:Islamic State suicide bombing kills 25 in Kabul, including at least 9 journalists
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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 3, 2018 at 7:29 pm
(May 2, 2018 at 6:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If there is a first moment in time, it didn't always exist.
I disagree.
The first thing to have existed in time existed at all times. It just didn't exist before time. Because, of course, no time has existed before time. That wouldn't even make any sense.
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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 3, 2018 at 7:37 pm
(This post was last modified: May 3, 2018 at 7:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The incoherence of the proposition is contained in the rejoinder. MK asserts that there was a first moment, okay...but then implies and questions something before that moment.
What the hell is "before" supposed to mean in the absence of moments?
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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 3, 2018 at 7:42 pm
(May 2, 2018 at 8:37 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: No one is qualified to make any statement of how the universe got here.
Ta Ha! LOL!
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RE: If there was a 1st moment in time.
May 3, 2018 at 7:43 pm
(This post was last modified: May 4, 2018 at 8:53 am by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 3, 2018 at 7:37 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The incoherence of the proposition is contained in the rejoinder. MK asserts that there was a first moment, okay...but then implies and questions something before that moment.
What the hell is "before" supposed to mean in the absence of moments?
Exactly.
(May 2, 2018 at 8:37 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: No one is qualified to make any statement of how the universe got here.
LOL that coming from a theist 
You guys literally state that the universe was made by some magical invisible almighty dude.
Something had to exist.
Krauss is right about that part.
But he's a fucking idiot when he talks as if "nothing" is something lol.
Nothing is nothing. That's the whole point of nothing. It isn't anything lol. What he calls nothing is actually something.
Existence itself is necessary because nonexistence can't exist. That's the answer.
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