Mass Extinction!

[Autumnlicious]

True, Chuck. Bad thing about reforming the planet with climate change is that we might not like it. Or like any damage done to our real estate, food production or entrenched populace.

I think I have to agree with that sentiment. If humanity is to become extinct, I don't really care what happens to the planet after that. As long as we need to use the planet as a resource, I think we should do what we can to keep it around.

I echo that mercenary statement.

[Anomalocaris]

I agree. Setting a forest fire might in the long run be good for the forest. But it's small comfort if you are roasted alive in it.

[ib.me.ub]

Yep. To be honest, the best thing that could happen for this planet is for climate change to kill us and to spare enough life for this planet to continue sustaining it.

I had no idea the planet was a thinking thing with a value system. For me the planet and all on it is exactly a resource to be managed for the benefit of men and his progenies and nothing else, and the continued existence of the planet and everything on it would be a silly objective without presupposing the continued existence of men and his progenies to benefit from it.

It is a pity you have lost your connection to our home, after all we are but an extension of the Earth. Maybe there are more important things in the Universe apart from human beings. Until we learn to live with our planet, we do not deserve to exist into the future.

I think I have to agree with that sentiment. If humanity is to become extinct, I don't really care what happens to the planet after that. As long as we need to use the planet as a resource, I think we should do what we can to keep it around.

Once again, what is the importance of the human race. If we don't respect our home, why do we deserve to exist.

Yep. To be honest, the best thing that could happen for this planet is for climate change to kill us and to spare enough life for this planet to continue sustaining it.

Since for me the planet and all on it is exactly a resource to be managed for the benefit of men and his progenies and nothing else, and the continued existence of the planet and all on it unnecessary without men continued existence of men and his progenies, no meaningful discussion between can continue on this basis.

I didn't say I wanted it to happen. However, I do have an interest in the planet that goes beyond the species that is destroying it.

I think others do as well.

This species is not destroying it. It is reforming it, although whether or not for the better by a number of different standards, including what i think is yours, is really much harder to say then you realize.

We are not destroying the Planet, we are destroying the systems that support life. The other extinctions you talk of did happen, the difference is, we are aware of our actions and are choosing to do nothing.

[Anomalocaris]

I have not lost my connection to my home. But I do not place more sentimental value on my home than I do on my own prosperity than those of my progenies. Maybe there are more important things in the universe to some people than the human race, but I am not one of those people. To me the ultimate welfare of the human race overrides all else. I have no care at all about any universe which we humans do not stand to benefit from in some way that ultimately translates to our improved well being. What is the importance of the human race? Human race is the only thing that can prioritize and conceptualize importance. So Nothing, including humans, is important to anything else other than the humans. So we humans might as well make ourselves important.

To choose to do nothing in the face of destruction of the biota may be foolish since we benefit from the biota. But it is not wrong for any other reason. For what other reason should we stop it? What is the basis for asserting that which is dying out is more deserving of life than that which will inevitably replace it?

[ib.me.ub]

I have not lost my connection to my home. But I do not place more sentimental value on my home than I do on my own prosperity than those of my progenies. Maybe there are more important things in the universe to some people than the human race, but I am not one of those people. To me the ultimate welfare of the human race overrides all else. I have no care at all about any universe which we humans do not stand to benefit from in some way that ultimately translates to our improved well being. What is the importance of the human race? Human race is the only thing that can prioritize and conceptualize importance. So Nothing, including humans, is important to anything else other than the humans. So we humans might as well make ourselves important.

To choose to do nothing in the face of destruction of the biota may be foolish since we benefit from the biota. But it is not wrong for any other reason. For what other reason should we stop it? What is the basis for asserting that which is dying out is more deserving of life than that which will inevitably replace it?

The ultimate welfare of the human race depends on a healthy Planet. A Planet should be nutured, not looked upon soley as a resource. A mutual co-existence.

It is only wrong in the sense that it makes no sense to kill ourselves.

You say you want to make humans important, would it not be better that humans survive, thus one day becoming important in a wider context.

[Anomalocaris]

The ultimate welfare of the human race depends on a healthy Planet. A Planet should be nutured, not looked upon soley as a resource. A mutual co-existence.

It is only wrong in the sense that it makes no sense to kill ourselves.

You say you want to make humans important, would it not be better that humans survive, thus one day becoming important in a wider context.

Taking the long view, the ultimate welfare of human race actually depends on our getting off this planet. At the present we need this planet. But the survival of humans will eventually entail our leaving this planet behind. Ultimately our industrial capacity will need to be orders of magnitude larger then now, and we will need to extract a orders of magnitude more resource from our planet then we have hitherto, to facilitate our departure. So in the short run we might take care not to burn down our own house. But in the long run we have no business nurturing the planet in any way that does not facilitate our extracting the resources we need to make our emigration possible.

[orogenicman]

The ultimate welfare of the human race depends on a healthy Planet. A Planet should be nutured, not looked upon soley as a resource. A mutual co-existence.

It is only wrong in the sense that it makes no sense to kill ourselves.

You say you want to make humans important, would it not be better that humans survive, thus one day becoming important in a wider context.

Taking the long view, the ultimate welfare of human race actually depends on our getting off this planet. At the present we need this planet. But the survival of humans will eventually entail our leaving this planet behind. Ultimately our industrial capacity will need to be orders of magnitude larger then now, and we will need to extract a orders of magnitude more resource from our planet then we have hitherto, to facilitate our departure. So in the short run we might take care not to burn down our own house. But in the long run we have no business nurturing the planet in any way that does not facilitate our extracting the resources we need to make our emigration possible.

Your long view implies that humanity can do without the concept of sustainability, the idea of living within our means. And I think that is a very dangerous idea, one, in fact, that I believe has gotten us in the situation we are at the present. My opinion is that we have no business whatsoever conducting ourselves in anything other than a sustainable fashion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnFMrNdj1yY

[Anomalocaris]

Sustainability in the long run is ultimately impossible simply because life sustaining conditions on earth will not last forever with or without us. Sustainability in the short run approaches good policy, but is not the final objective, since we must come to terms with the inevitable need to everntually abandon this planet. So we should keep in mind what the final objective of short run effort at sustainability really is, and not make sustainability itself a quesi-religious doctrine, and thereby foreclose on nonsustainable efforts that also menifestly contributes to the final objective.

[Autumnlicious]

Indeed - the very emergence of life involves a consumption of resources, some of which are locked up, ever so slowly and rarely emerge again.

If intelligent life like ours is to flourish, it must expand beyond Earth. No good being intelligence and careful if a goddamn rock fireballs our home.

Sustainability is justified, but is neither a magic bullet or a guide. It is a way to maintain resourced utilization for longer terms, not supplant it entirely.

[ib.me.ub]

Sustainability in the long run is ultimately impossible simply because life sustaining conditions on earth will not last forever with or without us. Sustainability in the short run approaches good policy, but is not the final objective, since we must come to terms with the inevitable need to everntually abandon this planet. So we should keep in mind what the final objective of short run effort at sustainability really is, and not make sustainability itself a quesi-religious doctrine, and thereby foreclose on nonsustainable efforts that also menifestly contributes to the final objective.

You are thinking thousands, if not millions of years into the future. The human race will be lucky to make it past the next 300 years at the current rate of comsumption.

Your vision hasen't an ounce of practicality and is perhaps beyond the means of the human race entirely. If we are ever able to grasp this concept is another good question. If we continue to fight against one other and the planet we will never make it. It is beyond us.

Infact, you must come to terms with the actual reality of the task before us. But it seems it is useless talking to you.